Inferior Se : what exactly makes it inferior ?

Hi all,

Could someone please explain in their own words how or why, in my case, my inferior Se function is in fact inferior ?
How does this translate to real life examples ? (is walking by a square you've crossed a thousand times, and not noticing a new statue for instance, a good example ? or not precisely ?)
And how does my inferior Se compare to someone who has Se as their 1st or 2nd function, ie someone with a well developed Se ?
Is Se only a matter of seeing the obvious or is it more broad than that ?
Does Se only relate to the senses or is it more intricate than that ? (I mean I have perfect eyesight and very heightened senses over all (smell, vision, hearing, touch), yet I think that is not what determines well developed Se right ?)
lots of questions prolly all boiling down to the same thing...

I know their are hundreds of topics that relate to this but I'd still appreciate some personal feedback. Thanks in advance !

Se is inferior/suppressed because of dominant Ni. I can understand why you are asking this question though, because Se is described as such a simplistic function that can easily be associated with our ability because it is using the five senses. Therefore it seems the least like a cognitive function for me, when going by those descriptions.

In MBTIs cognitive functions Se is simply being attuned to surroundings and the environment. Therefore I think they would be good at realizing how actions can impact the world around them. An Ni dom will be focused on forecasting the future events, realizing patterns and trends from the intangible reality based on their own subjective impressions. As Se is the opposite of Ni, Ni doms will have difficulty in noticing the outer world during the present moment, which could result in inactivity and withdrawal from the environment.

Se becomes more complicated than those definitions when you're looking at socionics. It is known as "volitional sensing" because it is about how actions and behavior can make an immediate impact, or what you can do to achieve an object or desire in a situation. More complicated than the basic extroverted sensing relating to environmental awareness.

Thanks

wolfnara said:

As Se is the opposite of Ni, Ni doms will have difficulty in noticing the outer world during the present moment, which could result in inactivity and withdrawal from the environment.

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So, people with well developed Se don't really have an opposite weakness, don't they ? Except for missing out on the big picture every now and then right ?

I want to trade cards

Everywhere I go I have sensory and intuitive overload. Nothing in the real world makes any sense : for instance, every goddamn store has it's own customer & discount systems and none of them make any sense. I need to know every detail before I can make up my mind. From the reason why the CEO markets product A the way he does, to the reason why the store clerk places it on a specific shelf. 10000 brands are also not helping. And I'm just giving an example of how difficult "everyday" life is to me. Boohoo Somehow all this madness makes perfect sense to so many people and they don't seem to ask any questions. Note that I haven't even mentioned picking up vibes from people (Fe) during all of this processing. If I knew how I would instantly lobotomize my Ni (and frankly, Fe too).

meowington said:

Thanks



So, people with well developed Se don't really have an opposite weakness, don't they ? Except for missing out on the big picture every now and then right ?

I want to trade cards

Everywhere I go I have sensory and intuitive overload. Nothing in the real world makes any sense : for instance, every goddamn store has it's own customer & profit systems and none of them make any sense. I need to know every detail before I can make up my mind. From the reason why the CEO markets product A the way he does, to the reason why the store clerk places it on a specific shelf. 10000 brands are also not helping. And I'm just giving an example of how difficult "everyday" life is to me. Boohoo Somehow all this madness makes perfect sense to so many people and they don't seem to ask any questions. Note that I haven't even mentioned picking up vibes from people (Fe) during all of this processing. If I knew how I would instantly lobotomize my Ni (and frankly, Fe too).

Click to expand...

Haha, I don't even think about these things.
Se types have inferior Ni, so it's the reverse. All inferior functions are the opposite of the dominant functions.

meowington said:

And how does my inferior Se compare to someone who has Se as their 1st or 2nd function, ie someone with a well developed Se ?

Click to expand...

Do you learn extremely quickly from past experience?

Urarienev said:

Do you learn extremely quickly from past experience?

Click to expand...

Yeah I think so. In terms of intuition I mean. Not sure what you're aiming at.

Inferior Se- Noticing everything and nothing at the same time in the moment. It services Ni when called to duty; all of sudden recalling bits of information that meant nothing by themselves but are now coming together to build a pattern.
The worst example is research Web-MD. You're reading about pain in your leg, and they mention a blood clot. You start researching a blood clot, and all of a sudden you're painfully aware of each cell's movement in your body. You keep reading and realize you have each symptom listed (though none of them are of the severity usually noted with a blood clot) and then you imagine your life ending in some horrible way as this clot makes its way to your brain. You sit there until you calm down and realize that you always get symptom A (let's say headache) when the pollen count is high, so maybe it's not, but maybe it is...but maybe not.
They say that INJs are more likely to be a hypochondriac.

Because its that annoying thing called reality that doesnt always support the perceptin you internalized. Plus...does it even really matter, i enjoy my rabbit hole.

meowington said:

Could someone please explain in their own words how or why, in my case, my inferior Se function is in fact inferior ?

Click to expand...

That's a great question.

As you probably already know, in MBTI all types are comprised of functions. Functions don't act singly, each one has an opposite function that it operates together with in order to enable a particular way of perceiving information (Perceiving functions) or evaluating information (Judging functions).

In your case, your dominant function is Introverted Intuition (Ni), and its opposite is Extroverted Sensing (Se). Introverted intuition takes objective data (Se), and can do a couple of things with it. Ni can utilize Se data to make inferences about the future based on the configuration of those points, which is why Ni-users are known for their ability to "predict" certain future events. Ni can also take external information and work with the user's judging function to create internal networks of meaning, or "symbols", based on how the Ni-user evaluates this information beyond its original context. In the case of INFJs, this value mapping process is pretty important as it allows them make judgements about how a given situation lines up (or doesn't!) with their Fe ideals.

Ok, so with that laid out, let's get back to your original question: what makes Se "inferior" when Ni is dominant?

Being an INFJ means that you primarily relate to the world around you through the processes of introverted intuiting that I just described above. When you are using a function that by definition seeks to go beyond the perception of the objective, sensory data collected via Se, you'll necessarily be out of touch with that information. If you were fully immersed in the external experience of that data, then your attention is naturally pulled away from assessing and reimagining it internally.

That is why even though functional pairs need each other, to show preference for one is to by definition suppress the other. When you are introverting intuiting, you're no longer actively engaging your extraverted sensing. If your primary means of navigating the world is introverted intuition, then extroverted sensing will always be suppressed. Over time, it becomes sufficiently underutilized that while you're constantly using it unconsciously to support your Ni, the experience of actively engaging with external sensory data can be very uncomfortable, even invasive, compared to what you are used to.

This tension creates a dynamic where Se will only emerge when your Ni is utterly depleted either by stress or exhaustion, and the unconscious Se function (which has been doing its thing in the background all along) will come forward in a less mature and much less controlled way. If you want specifics of what that can look like, there's a great thread on forms of the inferior in INJs that I would highly recommend here on the forum.

Hopefully that helps!

IZthe411 said:

The worst example is research Web-MD. You're reading about pain in your leg, and they mention a blood clot. You start researching a blood clot, and all of a sudden you're painfully aware of each cell's movement in your body. You keep reading and realize you have each symptom listed (though none of them are of the severity usually noted with a blood clot) and then you imagine your life ending in some horrible way as this clot makes its way to your brain. You sit there until you calm down and realize that you always get symptom A (let's say headache) when the pollen count is high, so maybe it's not, but maybe it is...but maybe not.
They say that INJs are more likely to be a hypochondriac.

Click to expand...

OMG ! That's exactly what I've been going through the past few weeks. I had a bad outbreak of eczema all over my body (out of nowhere, never had any eczema before except on my hands sometimes). Probably from taking way too many baths in the middle of winter (that turns out to be the only reasonable explanation in the end). What happened next was exactly what you described (obsessing about it, web-MD, hypochondriac). Every other day I came up with a new chronic or terminal illness until my doctor told me I was just overworried. I've let it go since (which is just a few days ago). And I'm regaining the weight I've lost because of obsessing about it, to show how far this went. (Eczema itself is practically gone too, which helps too ofcourse)

Thank you so much for that insight. You just blew my mind. Absolutely amazing that you came up with precisely this example of inferior Se.

So what I'm getting from all this is that my Se function is not really handicapped per se or in itself, but rather suppressed or almost diabolically misled by Ni a lot of the time (?)
Makes me wonder how I can avoid that since this is all seems to play out very unconsciously to me. Makes me wonder which hypotheses I come up with in any given context I can actually trust. Or is it a matter of entirely not assuming/hypothesising as much as I tend to ? Thinking out loud here for a bit.

Wind Up Rex said:

Hopefully that helps!

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Yes ! Thanks. Very useful. Gonna reread the thread you posted tomorrow until I fully understand it. It's sometimes hard for me to transpose theoretical ideas on psychological functioning to my own personal life, but they do give some good practical examples, that seem to be applicable to me.

Tame interactions with the the environment, like silently watching what's going on with a cup of tea in hand... INxJs do shit like that a lot. It's sensing so thin you almost think it's Si (Ni doms and Si doms share the same temperament for a reason.) until they're unhealthy and taken over by the inferior Se and go batshit. That's what makes it inferior.

Man, I need a personal assistant from this board to guide me through life. How much do you guys charge ? Nightnight.

meowington said:

Thanks



So, people with well developed Se don't really have an opposite weakness, don't they ? Except for missing out on the big picture every now and then right ?

I want to trade cards

Everywhere I go I have sensory and intuitive overload. Nothing in the real world makes any sense : for instance, every goddamn store has it's own customer & discount systems and none of them make any sense. I need to know every detail before I can make up my mind. From the reason why the CEO markets product A the way he does, to the reason why the store clerk places it on a specific shelf. 10000 brands are also not helping. And I'm just giving an example of how difficult "everyday" life is to me. Boohoo Somehow all this madness makes perfect sense to so many people and they don't seem to ask any questions. Note that I haven't even mentioned picking up vibes from people (Fe) during all of this processing. If I knew how I would instantly lobotomize my Ni (and frankly, Fe too).

Click to expand...

This is such an INFJ statement. Lol.

I think this is your Tertiary Ti coming out to play. In service of Ni, it can "nit-pick" like nobody's business. Ti wants things to make sense. Internal consistency. Ni is hazy but resolute.

So you have to show that Ti who is boss. How? Maybe another INFJ can help as I'm in unfamiliar territory here.

My guess would be that your Se can help with this.

It makes all that mess...it shows what is viable in the real world and what is not but you have to utilize this. Otherwise, frustration can occur and circular logic prevails.

"Inferior" whatever means that one both overreacts and underreacts to it. Why? Because it is largely being suppressed, until it cannot be ignored, at which point it becomes larger than life.

The rest that might be said about inferior Se along with dominant Ni makes for fine philosophy, but goes far beyond what Jung was getting at with his Psychological Types.

I believe that, eventually, the inferior function becomes somewhat developed, but it always remains prone to the over/under-reacting. Basically, you become more conscious of your over/under-reactions, but you never quite master it the way you (can) master your dominant.

INFERIOR SE is manifested usually as a sensitivity to sense stimuli and often as lack of courage.If you want to understand it consider the Ni dom as the opposite of a warrior personality.Of course they have evolved superb intellectual skills to compensate.

meowington said:

Hi all,

Could someone please explain in their own words how or why, in my case, my inferior Se function is in fact inferior ?
How does this translate to real life examples ? (is walking by a square you've crossed a thousand times, and not noticing a new statue for instance, a good example ? or not precisely ?)
And how does my inferior Se compare to someone who has Se as their 1st or 2nd function, ie someone with a well developed Se ?
Is Se only a matter of seeing the obvious or is it more broad than that ?
Does Se only relate to the senses or is it more intricate than that ? (I mean I have perfect eyesight and very heightened senses over all (smell, vision, hearing, touch), yet I think that is not what determines well developed Se right ?)
lots of questions prolly all boiling down to the same thing...

I know their are hundreds of topics that relate to this but I'd still appreciate some personal feedback. Thanks in advance !

Click to expand...

The first thing to understand about Se is that it isn't necessarily anything to do with the physical senses. Failing to see a statue isn't automatically a reflection of the state of your Se. Se is the urge to explore and experiment with the world around you. It is the desire for the spontaneous rather than the pre-planned. Se is distinguished from Ne by the fact that it draws inspiration from what things fundamentally are, unlike Ne that is inspired by what things represent.

The difference between an inferior function and more developed one is the level of sophistication in the way they are expressed. In INJs, Se is suppressed and is usually seen leaking out round the sides. It is usually expressed in things that the INJ was going to have to go anyway, but with a little effort can feed the Se urge. That's why we are often foodies - you've got to eat and drink sometime, so experimenting with different flavours is an easy way to express Se.

It's not uncommon for INTJs to be rather hands when it comes to DIY. Te drives to solve a problem, doing an unfamiliar job yourself rather than hiring in a professional is another sneaky way of expressing Se that INTJs often employ.

Ultimately, these are very basic expressions of Se. INJs are more likely to satisfy their Se urges through direct sensory input than SPs, who will often express Se through other means. In SFPs, Se is guided by Fi which grades experiences according to the social, moral or emotional consequences of them. Ti types are often more interested in testing their skills and abilities, though the less developed Fe stops them from ignoring people altogether. True to it's nature, though such Fe driven interactions tend to be those of perceived necessity or solidarity with others, rather than games of SFPs.

Andy said:

Se is the urge to explore and experiment with the world around you. It is the desire for the spontaneous rather than the pre-planned. Se is distinguished from Ne by the fact that it draws inspiration from what things fundamentally are, unlike Ne that is inspired by what things represent.

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That's kind of the definition I was after. I can work with that, be it in a clumsy, undoubtedly unspontaneous way Last decade I've spent way more time with practical skills, like stuff in the garden, playing music, fixing things in the house (I was tired of sucking at that ), going on trips, walk or run every other day (usually in the woods),. I think I now better understand what Se stands for. How literally opposite this is to my Ni dom.

meowington said:

That's kind of the definition I was after. I can work with that, be it in a clumsy, undoubtedly unspontaneous way Last decade I've spent way more time with practical skills, like stuff in the garden, playing music, fixing things in the house (I was tired of sucking at that ), going on trips, walk or run every other day (usually in the woods),. I think I now better understand what Se stands for. How literally opposite this is to my Ni dom.

Click to expand...

I'm glad you like it - a lot of thought went into that simple definition.

"I...hate this place. This zoo, this prison, this reality, whatever you want to call it, I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell - if there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink. And everytime I do I fear I have been some how been infected by it."

I don't think Agent Smith is an INJ, but certainly this dialogue illustrates the attitude of an unhealthy one.

Andy said:

The first thing to understand about Se is that it isn't necessarily anything to do with the physical senses.

Click to expand...

I would disagree with this. While the rest of what you wrote is something I'd agree with, Se is very fundamentally about sensation - the touch, feel, sense, force and volition of things. You explore and connect with the world in a very physical, open, direct and literal way.