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A thread about Death

Quick

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My unrelenting desire to live forever.

Romans 2:1-11
"Therefore, every one of you who judges is without excuse. For when you judge another, you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment on those who do such things is based on the truth. Do you think—anyone of you who judges those who do such things yet do the same—that you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you despise the riches of his kindness, restraint, and patience, not recognizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? Because of your hardened and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment is revealed. He will repay each one according to his works: eternal life to those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality; but wrath and anger to those who are self-seeking and disobey the truth while obeying unrighteousness. There will be affliction and distress for every human being who does evil, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does what is good, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek. For there is no favoritism with God."

(Emphasis mine)
 

Haight

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I'm a pretty good person. So that's positive. Although that paragraph is rather vague, so I'm not sure. But I thought there was a clause stating that all Jews get a free ticket? (My words, of course. Not a quote. Just something I recall reading)

Also, where is that quoted from? It seems to read differently than I recall.
 

Quick

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I'm a pretty good person. So that's positive. Although that paragraph is rather vague, so I'm not sure. But I thought there was a clause stating that all Jews get a free ticket? (My words, of course. Not a quote. Just something I recall reading)

Also, where is that quoted from? It seems to read differently than I recall.

It comes from Romans 2:1-11, the fifth book of the NT.

Paul in Romans will answer all your questions pertaining to this. Elsewhere we read from the same book by Paul,

Romans 3:1-12
"Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written,
“That you may be justified in your words,
and prevail when you are judged.” But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) By no means! For then how could God judge the world? But if through my lie God’s truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”"

And also,

Romans 10:8-13
"But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”"

This statement of confession as Yeshua HaMashiach is what saves in the Christian faith. Verse 13 is noteworthy as it equates Yeshua as YWHW ("“everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved”" compared to "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord"). There are other examples of this, such as Genesis 18:1 where it says Abraham saw YHWH face to face and had an extended dialog with him. Yet take note of this as well,

John 1:18
"No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known."

which is speaking of Yeshua.
 

Haight

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So I think I'm good. Thank you.

I will say, however, it all seems very vague to me. I suspect that's why there are over two thousand variations of Christianity (I read that like a decade ago, so there are undoubtably more now). I've always loved the irony in that. Meaning, poor Martin Luther thought he was ending Catholicism and unifying Christianity. Boy was he wrong. On both accounts, actually.
 

Quick

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So I think I'm good. Thank you.

I will say, however, it all seems very vague to me. I suspect that's why there are over two thousand variations of Christianity (I read that like a decade ago, so there are undoubtably more now). I've always loved the irony in that. Meaning, poor Martin Luther thought he was ending Catholicism and unifying Christianity. Boy was he wrong. On both accounts, actually.

Different denominations is not ipso facto a reason to dismiss the claims made by Christianity. For example, in Judaism, you have Kabala and Reformed Judaism and Orthodox.

I will not press you further if you would rather not discuss it. Just let me know if/when you would like me to stop talking about it and I will.
 

Vendrah

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The point is, you can find an experience that validates pretty much any belief system that already believes in life after death, so obviously, it will not be settled that way.
The same applies to whatever Christianity stuff you put on the thread, including those "eye testimony" from thousands of years ago of sort.
 

SensEye

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As I have said, all NDEs affirm is life after death. You cannot build a belief system out of them.
I don't agree with you that NDEs affirm life after death, but that is neither here nor there as I agree you cannot build a belief system out of anything NDE related. I was just curios about your position on judgement of non-believers.

Your subsequent bible quotes seem an to be an attempt to address the issue, but not really. In any event, I'll leave debate over the nuances of the Christian faith to the Christians. If the God hypothesis turns out to be correct, I'll presume I'm doomed unless God turns out to be a really merciful fellow who can forgive faithlessness.
 

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The same applies to whatever Christianity stuff you put on the thread, including those "eye testimony" from thousands of years ago of sort.

It does not matter how far away from the events we are to judge the accuracy of claims from eyewitnesses. All that matters is how soon after the events they are recorded. For example, if someone in 100 years sees a YouTube video of Alex O'Connor talking to William Lane Craig, it does not matter that it is 100 years after the fact to know that they had a discussion about something pertaining to their respective interests.
 

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I don't agree with you that NDEs affirm life after death, but that is neither here nor there as I agree you cannot build a belief system out of anything NDE related. I was just curios about your position on judgement of non-believers.

Your subsequent bible quotes seem an to be an attempt to address the issue, but not really. In any event, I'll leave debate over the nuances of the Christian faith to the Christians. If the God hypothesis turns out to be correct, I'll presume I'm doomed unless God turns out to be a really merciful fellow who can forgive faithlessness.

I'd recommend you look into the evidence of Theism and Christianity. If there is even a slightly remote chance of there being life after death, and the rewards or punishments from said deity, then you should avail yourself of every chance to get to know this being because your eternal fate hangs in the balance. There is evidence for Theism and the Christian faith, but it is always possible to deny such things.

Pascal Faith Doubt.jpg
 

Vendrah

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It does not matter how far away from the events we are to judge the accuracy of claims from eyewitnesses. All that matters is how soon after the events they are recorded. For example, if someone in 100 years sees a YouTube video of Alex O'Connor talking to William Lane Craig, it does not matter that it is 100 years after the fact to know that they had a discussion about something pertaining to their respective interests.
Yet the other testimonies of @Polaris can be easily taken as invalid, yours are valid regardless of the matter...
 

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Seriously, I am the OP, I don't think this should be a thread for religious propaganda.

The topic is about death. NDEs demonstrate life after death. So they are related.

It's not my intention to be difficult. But something is only propaganda if it is not true. I believe Christianity is true. All I have done is make truth claims. You can disagree with those truth claims, but you can't just say I'm producing propaganda.
 

Haight

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Different denominations is not ipso facto a reason to dismiss the claims made by Christianity. For example, in Judaism, you have Kabala and Reformed Judaism and Orthodox.

I will not press you further if you would rather not discuss it. Just let me know if/when you would like me to stop talking about it and I will.
I have many reasons to dismiss all religious beliefs, but that's not my interest at all. Since, I really don't care what people believe. And my dad would add to that, "As long as they are not trying to kill me." Which is clearly not the case on this internet forum.

Press all you wish. I enjoy the topic of religion. I find them interesting. However, you should probably start a separate thread on the topic. It seems the thread author is a bit disturbed.
 
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