I see a lot of people saying sensors or Si users would be most drawn to religion and I just don't see it. Atheism concerns itself with the concrete. Religion, on the other hand, is an abstract and imaginative endeavor, and its rules that dictate behaviour would provide a type of structure for people who otherwise might feel they would just sort of float away into the ether without a really tangible grasp on how to interact with life.
Si is peculiar in the sense that it ties in with duty, responsibility, tradition, and cultural norms, which include some form of religiosity. Even a secular country like Sweden will demote the role of religion and the church to that of a public function (marriages, funerals, holiday observance, etc.).I see a lot of people saying sensors or Si users would be most drawn to religion and I just don't see it.
Si is peculiar in the sense that it ties in with duty, responsibility, tradition, and cultural norms, which include some form of religiosity. Even a secular country like Sweden will demote the role of religion and the church to that of a public function (marriages, funerals, holiday observance, etc.).
In other words, it isn't religion as such but the way it ties in with tradition, family, and community that makes it central to Si dom and Fe dom, and ISFJs (SiFe) most of all.
There is also the haunting specter of having an INTJ superego, which forces wraith-like Ni outside of the conscious ego and into the hands of an internalized authority figure.
I see a lot of people saying sensors or Si users would be most drawn to religion and I just don't see it. Atheism concerns itself with the concrete. Religion, on the other hand, is an abstract and imaginative endeavor, and its rules that dictate behaviour would provide a type of structure for people who otherwise might feel they would just sort of float away into the ether without a really tangible grasp on how to interact with life.
brainwashed people mostly to start with, then it intersects with one's innate tendency for animism and correlates negatively with intellectual capacity.
For the reasons above I'm sure it correlates with type to a degree but it's too far removed from the causal roots to be relevant. Put any type in a world where religion is only introduced into adulthood and it they'd be unlikely to be religious without the early-life indoctrination
For the reasons above I'm sure it correlates with type to a degree but it's too far removed from the causal roots to be relevant. Put any type in a world where religion is only introduced into adulthood and it they'd be unlikely to be religious without the early-life indoctrination
How did religions start then? If that were the case, I would think that would mean that humans would have been irreligious longer than they have been irreligious. I find that hard to believe based on history and the archaeology of prehistory.
I never stated that, i simply stated that if people were not indoctrinated into religion in their early years religiosity would probably almost disappear, however I'm pretty sure people would still be superstitious (probably even more than now)What is the intellectual basis for "everyone is born an atheist"? The only evidence I can see is that specific religions are taught by society, but there are a lot of different conclusions one could draw from that.
Yep agreed. I don't think just 'getting rid of religion' is some kind of magic fix either.From where I sit, people seem to retain all the negative tendencies of religion even when traditional religion is removed, such as in the U.S.S.R (and of course, traditional religion came back in a big way in the U.S.S.R once communism fell). Which makes me think that there's something about those negative tendencies that are more ingrained in human nature, if such a thing exists.
You've totally got the wrong playbook, maybe that's GURPS but in the AD&D playbook the Cleric class is far, far better than this description.
How did religions start then? If that were the case, I would think that would mean that humans would have been irreligious longer than they have been irreligious. I find that hard to believe based on history and the archaeology of prehistory.
What is the intellectual basis for "everyone is born an atheist"? The only evidence I can see is that specific religions are taught by society, but there are a lot of different conclusions one could draw from that.
From where I sit, people seem to retain all the negative tendencies of religion even when traditional religion is removed, such as in the U.S.S.R (and of course, traditional religion came back in a big way in the U.S.S.R once communism fell). Which makes me think that there's something about those negative tendencies that are more ingrained in human nature, if such a thing exists.
: P
Okey I've never played any of these so couldn't tell. But yeah if magic was real I'm sure devout people would have neat powers.
yep totally in agreement with you there. Atheistic christians, jews, muslims still often seem to espouse many of the traits and values associated with said religion. It's kind of like entropy. Once you pour the Dye into the water you can never really separate the two again.Bertrand Russell used to talk about there being protestant and catholic atheists after they had come to atheism because he thought that the stamp of culture lasted longer than people thought, even the people themselves involved.
Yes i see alot of this happening now, there is a limited 'rebirth' of traditional values coming from people or the types of people who in the early 2000s would reject religion and all it's related cultural elements. Hell I see that in myself to a degree, where, despite finding the descriptions of the supernatural supplied by Christianity to be bordering on the absurd, I recognize many of the positive aspects of christianity compared to other religions' cultural baggage.Ironically, Hilaire Belloc said something very similar, in the great heresys he talked about a "spirit of protestantism", I found it very interesting because he's not simply talking about agitators or a sort of "perennial opposition", people be begin as intractable opponents but at the first opportunity will become the greatest defenders or greatest conservatives in a "new order" they think is of their making, there's a bunch of examples that I'm sure anyone can think of. I'm sure that election cycles work with this kind of thing, avoid war of the roses style struggles of succession etc.
I do think that religion, politics, ideology, whatever becomes a channel for something much more fundamental.
Jung's theories of archetypes and his idea of the unconscious as a mandela of different complexes, ie archetypes which have been integrated, I think is one good illustration of the idea, there are others, less spiritual or esoteric perhaps.
Interesting. I've never consider it from that particular perspective. For me it's about animism and our tendency, as individuals with agency, to want to give our environment agency. But your perspective is intriguing. Care to elaborate?Also I think this type of thing just happens, atheists trash religious people the way that religious people, sometimes, trash atheists, not so much anymore, at least I dont see it myself. I have read a couple of authors, like Hans Kuhn, who, without being totally disrespectful or anything, have suggested that things like attachment style do influence peoples predilections for religion or secularism. I think that's right.
I do think that how people picture god has alot to do with how they view their parents. There is a paternalistic feel to the Abrahamic god.I've read a good book on attachment lately which deals with that and I think a family with father, mother, siblings, secure parental and sibling bonds can provide certain patterns, expectations etc. Maybe an atheist could or would suggest it creates unwitting optimism and a predilection for delusion. I dont see much value in those sorts of circular discussions though. The author of the book does go on about a lot of things like "being saved" and uses a pretty unique language that doesnt mean much to me and I think is really unhelpful but its tradition, not mine and I'm fine with that.
One thing I would say is that its pretty lazy a lot of the time the trashing that I do read.
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That's it's magic?
Magic.
You know what they say about magic.
Bertrand Russell used to talk about there being protestant and catholic atheists after they had come to atheism because he thought that the stamp of culture lasted longer than people thought, even the people themselves involved.
I've actually noticed this myself, and I actually feel relieved to know that it's not my original idea, so I can be sure that I'm not pulling things out of my ass.yep totally in agreement with you there. Atheistic christians, jews, muslims still often seem to espouse many of the traits and values associated with said religion. It's kind of like entropy. Once you pour the Dye into the water you can never really separate the two again.
I do think that how people picture god has alot to do with how they view their parents. There is a paternalistic feel to the Abrahamic god.