G
Ginkgo
Guest
I'm a 4 and I have a penis. 4 peni, actually.
I'm a 4 and I have a penis. 4 peni, actually.
CZEEEEEE!! XX OO
OP - This brings up something that has been bothering me for some time. When I was young, I was very subdued and self-contained. I was the archetypal wallflower, albeit a very intense and irascible one. I stayed "tomboy" for a lot longer than my other girlfriends, into my teens. I felt boyish and enjoyed "boy" activities (or things associated traditionally with boys), like anything that meant getting dirty, while liking "girly" things, like clothes and glitter and make-up. I stayed shuttered up in myself into my teens, even after my first boyfriend at 16.
My sister tells me that I "came into my own" in my early to mid 20s. I'm not sure what happened. Something just kicked in. It was and is a mystery to me - I just woke up one day and there it was? I felt altered somehow. After that, I began noticing that I attracted both men and women sexually, which was surprising to me because I feel, at any given time, a great deal less attractive than my sister and my female best friends who are both vibrant and pretty. My ENTJ best friend has reported being attractive to other women, and she isn't sure why.
Is that "male" energy? Is that "androgyny"? Does it have to do with being a sx 4?
I'm not sure? It's very frustrating. I don't find mysteries flattering.
Like women 4s usually have a cold, hardass element that seems out of place, while male 4s usually have a gentle, sympathetic element that seems out of place... even though ultimately male & female 4s are probably mostly the same.
What do you think? Are 4s the most androgynous type?
Yeah, this is exactly why I thought I was an INTP for awhile. There are a lot of INFP descriptions out there which make us sound like we are extroverted feelers and I didn't relate to that at all.
This isn't to say that I'm not feminine, I guess. But not in the traditional way. In all honesty, I don't perceive myself in terms of gender all that much. I don't think of myself as a woman so much as a human. I often find myself identifying more with male musicians/writers/protagonists, not because they are male, but just because they often don't seem to be so caught up in gender. They are people, vs with females/female characters there often seems to be this emphasis on being a woman, confiding in your girl friends/ female solidarity, etc, that I really don't relate to.
i definitely have more feminine than masculine traits, but i've always had some kind of disconnect with most girls where i feel unlike them. but not a tomboy or a guy's girl either, although i do find guys easier to hang out with sometimes. i guess it's the whole maternal caretaker thing, i just don't have it. me and my best friend always talk about how we're not 'real' girls.
4w5 male here. I like to think I'm more macho than I was growing up. (I just found myself yelling at a televised football game after typing the previous sentence). The simple act of analyzing one's masculinity strikes me as feminine. I've always been far too accommodating to be very masculine.
Eventually I arrived at the conclusion that the most accommodating thing I could do was bust balls and slap backs. Being a kind and nurturing man makes a lot of people uncomfortable. Sometimes I wonder if I went full on ass-hole somewhere along the way but I tell myself if I have to ask I haven't. Any masculinity I display is just a reaction to my inherent instinct to care for people's feelings.
Or gender "roles", if you think life is like a performance.
First question: isn't life like a performance??
But, I think 5s are the least gender-particular Enneagram type. All 5s are kinda the same, in their behavior. 4s are more mysterious, usually they have some androgynous feature that's hard to put your finger on. Like women 4s usually have a cold, hardass element that seems out of place, while male 4s usually have a gentle, sympathetic element that seems out of place... even though ultimately male & female 4s are probably mostly the same.
What do you think? Are 4s the most androgynous type?
For the record, I knew you were a guy, just more emotional. It's because of your writing style and the pic you took a while back in one of the forums.![]()
So you see 5s as lacking gendered traits in general, and 4s having a mixture of stereotypically masculine and feminine traits, right? I can agree with this to an extent, but overall I see 5s as being primarily a masculine type (probably the second most masculine after 8s actually), and 4s as more feminine. The typically cold, calm, logical, unexpressive nature of 5s is closer to the average western idea of masculinity than the deeply emotional, sensitive nature of 4s.
First question: isn't life like a performance??
and the sleeping part? Do you think you could make Romeo fall in love with you? And the most important in that, the tragedy. It's not just Juliet. But Romeo is influenced by Juliet. And for the play to have the luscious aspects of love, beauty and tragedy genuine feelings makes it so much better. Like when you kiss Romeo, that the passion from the kiss can permeate the entire audience.I could probably very easily play the woman role in a theatrical tragedy like Romeo & Juliet. I could do it with grace, beauty, & precision, & probably win some awards at it.
It's interesting you choose to use 'trapped'. This indicates disharmony. And that you you are not fully satisfied with the 'tools' you have to 'tackle' a man? My first idea was that the man wasn't interested, probably not gay.I exclaimed once at work " I swear I'm a gay man, trapped in a women's body." My co-worker at the time, told me it would explain a lot if I was. I'm still not quite sure how to take that.
Where's my troll spray?It's interesting you choose to use 'trapped'. This indicates disharmony. And that you you are not fully satisfied with the 'tools' you have to 'tackle' a man? My first idea was that the man wasn't interested, probably not gay.
If you mean social. I wouldn't worry. These are imo mostly constructs, and anyone can play any role, if learned(ignoring
slow learners). But the next dimension, that is different.
I keep mine in my bag, look there. Read again. I actually used a bit of time on that post. You can address a point I am wrong about, and we can discuss it.Where's my troll spray?
I'm not sure if you are serious or not. Reread my post, I didn't mention any men.I keep mine in my bag, look there. Read again. I actually used a bit of time on that post. You can address a point I am wrong about, and we can discuss it.
and the sleeping part? Do you think you could make Romeo fall in love with you? And the most important in that, the tragedy. It's not just Juliet. But Romeo is influenced by Juliet. And for the play to have the luscious aspects of love, beauty and tragedy genuine feelings makes it so much better.
Like when you kiss Romeo, that the passion from the kiss can permeate the entire audience.
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and the sleeping part? Do you think you could make Romeo fall in love with you? And the most important in that, the tragedy. It's not just Juliet. But Romeo is influenced by Juliet. And for the play to have the luscious aspects of love, beauty and tragedy genuine feelings makes it so much better. Like when you kiss Romeo, that the passion from the kiss can permeate the entire audience.
Yes you did.I'm not sure if you are serious or not. Reread my post, I didn't mention any men.
It obviously matters that I called your coworker a he. Not sure why.I'm a gay man
That's great. But do you also fall in love, or is it just Romeo? I guess I mean the 'loose yourself in someone'.The sleeping part is probably my best part, that's what I practiced for. That's when I learned how to make Romeo fall in love too. They (the characters) appeared to me in a dream & said it... of course. My geuine feelings are a millions of peelings.
What? A straight actor can suck as much as a gay actor.Funny that you say that, since in Shakespearean times female roles were played by young men. Also, what has to do the real sexuality of actors with the quality of performance? As long as they're good actors, it's not needed that they love or hate each other in real life.
There are lots of gay actors, and I don't see anybody complaining because they have to kiss women that they don't like.
Fours, I typically scan as female regardless of true gender.