[Type 4] 4w3 vs 4w5

[Luigi]

I feel like I have a darkness similar to INTJs... even though I don't have Ni or Se.
When I get upset, I brood. As if I'm not enough of a recluse.

 

[ARET45]

My type: 4w5.

I am mostly a solitary, recluse. I vibe very different to people I typed as 4w3. The 4w3 comes off as energetically similar to the 6w7, almost like an extrovert.

4w5 is more like, a hermit that only occasionally shows themselves. I think that the 4w5 tends to only have a few close friends, and will be hesitant to form more superficial or fleeting bonds.

 

[Lia_kat]

My type: 4w5.

I am mostly a solitary, recluse. I vibe very different to people I typed as 4w3. The 4w3 comes off as energetically similar to the 6w7, almost like an extrovert.

4w5 is more like, a hermit that only occasionally shows themselves. I think that the 4w5 tends to only have a few close friends, and will be hesitant to form more superficial or fleeting bonds.

Interesting..
I'm an absolute loner and have an extremely small circle of friends... and even them I keep a distance in pursuit of intellectual stimulation and to focus on my artwork or be close to nature. I prefer solitude and push a lot of people away. This is one of the reasons I thought I was a 4w5.

However, I can also be very social, charming, and quirky/silly. I critique social norms and rules but I'm always aware of them (although I'm a hyperaware person in general) and how I "fit in" or usually in my case, how I don't. I also love dressing a certain way (ex. Dark clothing, boots, etc) to show my "authentic" self through style. All of this led me to believe I'm more of a 4w3.

 

[Hiraeth]

Interesting..
I'm an absolute loner and have an extremely small circle of friends... and even them I keep a distance in pursuit of intellectual stimulation and to focus on my artwork or be close to nature. I prefer solitude and push a lot of people away. This is one of the reasons I thought I was a 4w5.

However, I can also be very social, charming, and quirky/silly. I critique social norms and rules but I'm always aware of them (although I'm a hyperaware person in general) and how I "fit in" or usually in my case, how I don't. I also love dressing a certain way (ex. Dark clothing, boots, etc) to show my "authentic" self through style. All of this led me to believe I'm more of a 4w3.

I am also most probably a 4w3 as well. I, like you, have few close friends that I don't see very often and seclude myself to work on my artwork too. Funny how similar we are. Despite the fact that I am EXTREMELY introverted, much more so than maybe many 4w5s, I strive for ambition and success. I fantasize about being a famous artist one day, and put my all into my work. I also love dressing up in order to reflect my inner personality. I would always test as 4w5 on enneagram tests, but after really looking into the wings, I think i'm much more of a 4w3. I do have 4w5 tendencies, as my 5 scoring is very high. But the idea of me being successful at what I love represents the very essence of my life's purpose.

I used to stray away from the thought of me possibly being a 3 wing because of the usual descriptions of 4w3s being more extroverted and dramatic than the more withdrawn 4w5s. However, deep down I do care what others think of me and I tend to compare myself a little too much to others. I really dream of accomplishing things, but the 4 part of me doesn't want to "sell out" and commercialize myself. I want to be original and authentic as much as possible, while showcasing my talent at the same time.

There are times when I do ponder at the thought of possibly being a 5 wing, simply because in reality i absolutely HATE being the center of attention. Although, I do fantasize about gaining attention and recognition in my daydreams, but the very minute it happens in real life, I tend to back away as much as I possibly can. I think when I do showcase my work to other people, I'm exposing a part of my inner self where I feel like I am naked and vulnerable. It's like I can't handle showing that part of me to the public, but I have those dang fantasies where I want my work to be seen. It's very contradicting, so that's why I think possibly I could be a 5 wing? Or simply I am just over thinking things as usual.

 

[Lia_kat]

I am also most probably a 4w3 as well. I, like you, have few close friends that I don't see very often and seclude myself to work on my artwork too. Funny how similar we are. Despite the fact that I am EXTREMELY introverted, much more so than maybe many 4w5s, I strive for ambition and success. I fantasize about being a famous artist one day, and put my all into my work. I also love dressing up in order to reflect my inner personality. I would always test as 4w5 on enneagram tests, but after really looking into the wings, I think i'm much more of a 4w3. I do have 4w5 tendencies, as my 5 scoring is very high. But the idea of me being successful at what I love represents the very essence of my life's purpose.

I used to stray away from the thought of me possibly being a 3 wing because of the usual descriptions of 4w3s being more extroverted and dramatic than the more withdrawn 4w5s. However, deep down I do care what others think of me and I tend to compare myself a little too much to others. I really dream of accomplishing things, but the 4 part of me doesn't want to "sell out" and commercialize myself. I want to be original and authentic as much as possible, while showcasing my talent at the same time.

There are times when I do ponder at the thought of possibly being a 5 wing, simply because in reality i absolutely HATE being the center of attention. Although, I do fantasize about gaining attention and recognition in my daydreams, but the very minute it happens in real life, I tend to back away as much as I possibly can. I think when I do showcase my work to other people, I'm exposing a part of my inner self where I feel like I am naked and vulnerable. It's like I can't handle showing that part of me to the public, but I have those dang fantasies where I want my work to be seen. It's very contradicting, so that's why I think possibly I could be a 5 wing? Or simply I am just over thinking things as usual.

Wow, I relate to EVERYTHING you said... especially the last part about wanting recognition but the moment it happens you tend to back away, feeling vulnerable. It's crazy. I think our motivation and drive to fulfill our goals and be successful definitely makes us 4w3s.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

This is interesting. I consider myself to be an introvert, I take far more information from withdrawing into my own self than from my environment, but I really need people in order to feel healthy and complete. I feel there's no meaning into doing anything if you don't share the experience with someone else.

I am shy and I can be quiet, I am contemplative and can spend hours in my mind, just thinking about life, the future, the past, myself, everything...
But as much as I need to withdrawn, think and be just by myself, I need to be with others.

I wouldn't say I have tons of friends, but I have friends and more than just a few and I generally need to meet with someone everyday or every second day in order to not feel lonely. Usually when I spend more than just one day by myself I feel like climbing the walls.

 

[Lord Lavender]

Im my personal experience I would say the difference between 4w3 and 4w5 are many. 4w3s to me are more flamboyant and outgoing than 4w5s which tend to be more subdued and introverted. 4w3s are more artistic (Drama and fashion are very 4w3 fields) while 4w5s are more academic (Philosophy and literature are very 4w5 fields) but both are artists and intellectual types though in different ways. 4w3s are also in general more "upbeat" than 4w5s who tend to be more "morbid". Think Bowie (4w3) vs Burton (4w5. The images below i would say sum up the overall vibe of 4w3 and 4w5.

4w3 images




4w5 images

 

[Mayflower]

To me, 4w3 is more of the stereotypical hipster. 4w5 is more like that dark philosophical artist (i.e. Marilyn Manson).

 

[Lord Lavender]

To me, 4w3 is more of the stereotypical hipster. 4w5 is more like that dark philosophical artist (i.e. Marilyn Manson).

That is dead on the differences i was describing above. Both want to be unique (Most hipsters are not 4 IMO as a lot of them are following the trends to be part of hipsterdom so to speak which is more 6 not to have a unique identity like a 4 would.). Would you say that David Bowie is the archetypal 4w3 and Manson the typical 4w5?

 

[Mayflower]

That is dead on the differences i was describing above. Both want to be unique (Most hipsters are not 4 IMO as a lot of them are following the trends to be part of hipsterdom so to speak which is more 6 not to have a unique identity like a 4 would.). Would you say that David Bowie is the archetypal 4w3 and Manson the typical 4w5?

Bowie is a hard one. He's a 3 and 4, but in what order? Many say 3w4, others say 4w3. He strikes me as more core 3 though as it was more about the flare than the "identity". Marilyn Manson? yeah, he's a 4w5 posterchild without doubt.

 

[VILLANELLE]

Bowie is a hard one. He's a 3 and 4, but in what order? Many say 3w4, others say 4w3. He strikes me as more core 3 though as it was more about the flare than the "identity". Marilyn Manson? yeah, he's a 4w5 posterchild without doubt.

The Manson mention cracks me up. I think Trent Reznor is 4w5 as well, but I prefer TR more than MM these days.

 

[sunnymal]

I think 4w3 are more realistic and grounded and show themselves more really.
I as a 4w5 hide myself more than them because I'm not sure of how it affects them and how I look to them....not sure if it's safe.
I was very cautious not to look like a 4w5 to people and it seems that 4w3 don't mind how they look to people as much as I do.
They seemed not to mind that they look as 4 to people while I was afraid if my 4ish acts and words (focused on myself) make people go away.

 

[neko 4]

Why I think my wing is 5: Every test I've ever taken I've scored higher on 5 than on 3. I like lots of alone time. But I'm like a 3 in that I can assert myself and enjoy recognition.

 

[misfortuneteller]

So many intellectual or antisocial 4w3s mistype as 4w5s. Type 5 isn't about intellect or being a hermit despite popular belief.

Here are my list of unbiased differences between the two.

 

[saskiazaaza]

Maybe , I'm just introspective and introvert 4w3. And , I mistyped to be 4w5. And , I really aloof unlike 4w3 traits I know. But , I'm dramatic at the same time. Like , they're ambitious and competitive. I'm secretly competitive. And , i never think to fit in to society. Maybe , coz my So blindness. So , i'm mistyped to be 4w5. But , i'm just introverted 4w3 tbh.

 

[saskiazaaza]

So many intellectual or antisocial 4w3s mistype as 4w5s. Type 5 isn't about intellect or being a hermit despite popular belief.

Here are my list of unbiased differences between the two.

View attachment 20882

Yeah , i realize. I'm more 4w3 too. I had been tested at many enneagram sites. the results always 4w5. but i'm not too detached like 4w5. And , i don't think about my image as unique and special tbh. But , i'm just introverted 4w3 tbh....
Especially , i'm So blind 4w3 too

 

[Peter Deadpan]

silk shirts

 

[Pessimistic Hippie]

As someone who's been struggling a lot with this but recently settled on 4w5 (for the moment,) I thought I'd try to talk about how I formed that conclusion.

It was mostly by process of cancellation, via realizing that there was nothing about 3 I really related to but I do have SOME 5-ish characteristics. It was hard because I do like to perform (which I'm told is 3-ish) and I'm not research-oriented like 5s. I don't study things for the sake of knowing them; I study them only if it's knowledge I could pertain to my existence and overall well-being.

But if what matters most is someone's core reasons for doing things, I don't feel any desire to achieve status in life and be "accomplished"; winning the respect of others and relating to them in a way that helps me gain status is very unimportant to me because I see people as unpredictable influences. I'm actually very uncomfortable in situations where I feel I HAVE to do that to survive.

Whereas with 5s, I can fully relate to minimizing resources in order to not be reliant on others, and I base my style entirely on what's important to myself and my values.

 

[Pessimistic Hippie]

I don't know if this is oversimplifying it but I read something today that talked about how a key difference is, 4w5s are fixated on taking something they themselves believe in regardless of society's opinions and putting it out into the world. 4w3s also maintain a part of themselves, but they put more effort into adapting with the rest of the world at the same time.

If that's the case, that's how I knew I was 4w5 (I'd been questioning it again recently because I'm very engaging with others.) I'm far too stubborn to try to adapt in that way.

 

[Saturnal Snowqueen]

I don't think 4w3s are always more outgoing, but are less "aloof" than 4w5s tend to be I've observed and more desperate to be liked do to attachment influence. 4w3s also seem to make themselves more "palatable" than 4w5s, who don't really seem to care all that much. I know for me, while I define myself on my uglies and the authenticity of my actions always crosses my mind, sometimes I eschew certain "grody" expressions of myself to either look more sophisticated or to maintain my identity(like wanting to share a hidden side of myself but not wanting to be seen in the wrong light). Also, as a 4w3 they seem to care more about showing off their uniqueness and bohemia, while with 4w5 it's probably visible to the naked eye, often even more so than 4w3s, they're not trying to put on a show, it's just a safe haven for them. Both wings care about being competent, but as someone with a 3 wing it's more about my competence affecting my goals rather than being well-educated on a matter. 4s are part of the doubt triad, and I find those with 3 wings(*cough* me) are more obviously doubt looking, while the ones with 5 wings seem more self assured even though they're not the ones with assertive wings(but the 3 wing is seeking validation here).