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Trump 2020

Maou

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Questionable, if they do enough damage through the months of primaries they can significantly weaken him for GE. What is probably the general idea behind these primary challenges.


The thing is Trump isn't really a conservative: he was often in the company of pornstars and similar people, he don't really live by 10 commandments and cares about religion only in declarative manner, he doesn't care about plenty of stuff that could stablize many families, his trade wars aren't really conservative concept (conservative in American sense), from what I see he is adding new trillions to government debts year after year, ... etc. Therefore if media bubble bursts there could be "shocking results" in the end, since Trump as a whole is just a "media construct" and it can burst at any time.

And I didn't vote for him because he was conservative or not. I think the biggest reason I voted for him, was redoing trade deals, taxes, and trying to stabilize NATO spending. (Aka get everyone to pay their share, or leave). I also supported his policies on energy and oil independence.
 

Virtual ghost

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And I didn't vote for him because he was conservative or not. I think the biggest reason I voted for him, was redoing trade deals, taxes, and trying to stabilize NATO spending. (Aka get everyone to pay their share, or leave). I also supported his policies on energy and oil independence.


I believe you but you aren't the only one who voted. You can think about the guy whatever you want but he just isn't a real conservative, what the media are trying to mask. Therefore it is logical that some alternative voices are waking up.
 

Maou

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I believe you but you aren't the only one who voted. You can think about the guy whatever you want but he just isn't a real conservative, what the media are trying to mask. Therefore it is logical that some alternative voices are waking up.

Oh I don't think he is a real conservative either. Trump doesn't really fit snugly into any political party. He seems to agree with things on both sides, but takes a more efficiency stance, while playing the big talk game.
 

Norexan

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Trump is ENTJ and he is only hope for US.
 

Nicodemus

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I think the biggest reason I voted for him, was redoing trade deals, taxes, and trying to stabilize NATO spending. (Aka get everyone to pay their share, or leave). I also supported his policies on energy and oil independence.
And how satisfied are you with how he has delivered on these issues?
 

Virtual ghost

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Oh I don't think he is a real conservative either. Trump doesn't really fit snugly into any political party. He seems to agree with things on both sides, but takes a more efficiency stance, while playing the big talk game.


Take this as a comment of "concerned citizen" from allied nation.


You can shoot me but I just don't see the guy as efficiency anything: the term is coming to an end and I haven't noticed any major movement of the jobs back, neither he started some serious education reforms which will create workforce that will grab the jobs when they come back, budget is the same disaster as all of them over the last 20 years, he is flirting with various radical groups, he seriously rocked all traditional alliances US had since WW2 and all of this for no real gains since influence was lost, the wall thing got lost somewhere in the process, promises on healthcare: haven't notices any big movements either way, moves on Venezuela, Iran and NK are all mostly fail at this point since there are no real results, public safety seems to be worse than it was, infrastructure is serious but unaddressed issue, Afghanistan is still very open issue, ... etc. However due to the "salad" in the media people fail to see the bottom lines.



I am not anti Trump just on principle but the guy just doesn't seem to be qualified for what he was set to do, even if we count in all the nonsense factors and struggles of American politics. It is just that all moves are too small or too symbolic to really matter in large picture. Rebuilding/remaking of western civilization actually works for me quite well since otherwise I am in Communism 2.0 or a refugee unless EU manages to pull out something (which he is trashing btw.) I just don't see the Trump as the person that will turn all of this around. Actually since he took office here at the "frontline" there is a surge of Russian influence and just about nothing was truly done to change that. However if you gamble away the cold war victory/gains that will have serious consequences ... and as my posts suggest we really aren't too far from that.


:shrug:
 

Virtual ghost

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And how satisfied are you with how he has delivered on these issues?



Regarding NATO I think that average American just don't understand how things in Europe work. With a few exceptions Europe is basically a bunch of tiny countries that can't have some great military capacity. I am from the country where GDP is about 50 billion $ and that means that our NATO spending target is just 1 billion $. I mean what realistically you can organize for a billion $ in 2019 ? Especially in a way that USA would have a real use of it. With that money you just can't do much in the spheres of naval, air and ground in order that you build sophisticated army, since the whole niches are missing. Plus next to the most countries that are bordering mine my country is actually the big and strong one. So if we spend just 1.5% of GDP instead of 2.0% it just doesn't matter in the big picture. It is better that for that 0.5% we invest it into some kind of tech, fixing our war zones, feed the refugees or that we buy some resources before China does ... etc. After all China and Co are attacking this region in economic sense and military wouldn't do much here, finding economic counter-balance is actually more important. If bigger countries want to defend us fine and if they don't also fine ... since that means guerilla warfare for 274th time.



However if you turn the new page and form EU army that has the capacity to make big and sophisticated army then this a threat, globalization out of control ... etc. So America itself has to define what it wants since without great gathering Europe is basically useless globally, especially if you don't count the few bigger countries.
 

Deprecator

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The thing is Trump isn't really a conservative
I think it would be more accurate to say that he isn't really a politician (in the traditional sense); from the onset he was an outsider and underdog whose campaign was primarily funded by himself.



he was often in the company of pornstars and similar people
No doubt.

TRUMPBILL-articleLarge.jpg


Trump was an A-list celebrity, a TV star and a successful businessman who owned hundreds of businesses; while I don't know what you mean by "often", there's no doubt that he was absolutely in the company of all sorts of shady characters. Regardless, I think it's interesting how you've literally went from, "Trump had an affair with a porn star (which says a lot about his character)" to "Trump was often in the company of porn stars." Of course in any event, Trump is far from unique when it comes to these sorts of allegations so I really have no idea what point you're trying to make here.

"As BuzzFeed wrote, Bush was alleged of sexually assaulting a Texas woman who later committed suicide. He was also alleged to have engaged in an 18-month affair with a former stripper, with the affair concluding in 1999."

he don't really live by 10 commandments and cares about religion only in declarative manner, he doesn't care about plenty of stuff that could stablize many families, his trade wars aren't really conservative concept (conservative in American sense), from what I see he is adding new trillions to government debts year after year, ... etc.
Based solely on the metrics that you've provided I don't think there's ever been a conservative president in the entire history of the US.
 

Virtual ghost

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Trump was an A-list celebrity, a TV star and a successful businessman who owned hundreds of businesses; while I don't know what you mean by "often", there's no doubt that he was absolutely in the company of all sorts of shady characters. Regardless, I think it's interesting how you've literally went from, "Trump had an affair with a porn star (which says a lot about his character)" to "Trump was often in the company of porn stars." Of course in any event, Trump is far from unique when it comes to these sorts of allegations so I really have no idea what point you're trying to make here.


My point was simple, due to his constant behavior it is logical that someone with more paleoconservative views or however you call "old school conservatism" in the US wants to challenge Trump in the primaries. From what I understand some where quite unhappy when he got the nomination.
 

Deprecator

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It's interesting how initially there was this rather absurd narrative that if Trump were to be elected president then the economy would collapse, that there'd be nuclear war/ WW3, that Trump was somehow a conman who would be impeached within the year. Since virtually none of these predictions have come to fruition, I now genuinely wonder what Trump would have to do to appease his critics and cement his status as an effective leader. Raise the minimum wage to $15? Increase federal food aid benefits? Eliminate student debt? Medicare for all? Receive a $20B check from Mexico?

His impact on government and the populace is largely polarizing.
Well to be fair, I feel that Trump being elected president was the direct result of years upon years of political malpractice; many of us voted for him in the hopes he'd shake up the political establishment, and I daresay that it's worked. For the first time in US history intelligence and federal law enforcement services were used to investigate the front runner of an opposing political campaign, and this investigation eventually culminated into the now infamous Mueller investigation, where years were spent investigating a crime that was never committed, and whether or not the investigation into this non-crime was in any way impeded. Of course Rosenstien and Barr both concluded that there was no obstruction, and this sentiment was echoed by none other than Mueller himself who affirmed, under oath at the house judicacary committee, that his investigation was never interfered in any way.

The outrages that did not occur within many facets of the main stream media were that senior elements of the intelligence apparatus co-operated with the Clinton campaign before and after the election, to spread a plethora of lies and defamations ultimately funded by Hillary Clinton's camp. And just like I gladly predicted that the Mueller report would be nothing more than a baseless political stunt resulting in Trump's full exoneration, so too will I predict that the results of the inspector general's report on allegations of FISA abuse and the origins of the Mueller's investigation will be a total embarrassment for both the Obama administration and the intelligence community at large.

This whole fiasco may very well be "largely polarizing" for the government, but as an end result Trump has solidified his base and has polled more favorably among republicans than any other candidate in history. Many of the never Trump republican leaders have either resigned or lost their districts, and even critics like Romney have dramatically changed their tune over these past few years. Meanwhile the media has pretty much lost all credibility, socialist candidates have somehow become the new face of the DNC, and Trump continues to stand strong as a heavy favorite to win 2020.
 

highlander

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It's interesting how initially there was this rather absurd narrative that if Trump were to be elected president then the economy would collapse, that there'd be nuclear war/ WW3, that Trump was somehow a conman who would be impeached within the year. Since virtually none of these predictions have come to fruition, I now genuinely wonder what Trump would have to do to appease his critics and cement his status as an effective leader. Raise the minimum wage to $15? Increase federal food aid benefits? Eliminate student debt? Medicare for all? Receive a $20B check from Mexico?


Well to be fair, I feel that Trump being elected president was the direct result of years upon years of political malpractice; many of us voted for him in the hopes he'd shake up the political establishment, and I daresay that it's worked. For the first time in US history intelligence and federal law enforcement services were used to investigate the front runner of an opposing political campaign, and this investigation eventually culminated into the now infamous Mueller investigation, where years were spent investigating a crime that was never committed, and whether or not the investigation into this non-crime was in any way impeded. Of course Rosenstien and Barr both concluded that there was no obstruction, and this sentiment was echoed by none other than Mueller himself who affirmed, under oath at the house judicacary committee, that his investigation was never interfered in any way.

The outrages that did not occur within many facets of the main stream media were that senior elements of the intelligence apparatus co-operated with the Clinton campaign before and after the election, to spread a plethora of lies and defamations ultimately funded by Hillary Clinton's camp. And just like I gladly predicted that the Mueller report would be nothing more than a baseless political stunt resulting in Trump's full exoneration, so too will I predict that the results of the inspector general's report on allegations of FISA abuse and the origins of the Mueller's investigation will be a total embarrassment for both the Obama administration and the intelligence community at large.

This whole fiasco may very well be "largely polarizing" for the government, but as an end result Trump has solidified his base and has polled more favorably among republicans than any other candidate in history. Many of the never Trump republican leaders have either resigned or lost their districts, and even critics like Romney have dramatically changed their tune over these past few years. Meanwhile the media has pretty much lost all credibility, socialist candidates have somehow become the new face of the DNC, and Trump continues to stand strong as a heavy favorite to win 2020.

His approval rating is the worst of any president in this list except for Jimmy Carter. He's tied with Obama but Obama had to deal with the worst recession this country has seen since the great depression.

Presidential Approval Ratings -- Donald Trump

My guess is we will have a recession and he will be voted out of office, beat by a Democrat, in the next election.
 

Deprecator

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His approval rating is the worst of any president in this list except for Jimmy Carter. He's tied with Obama but Obama had to deal with the worst recession this country has seen since the great depression.

Presidential Approval Ratings -- Donald Trump

My guess is we will have a recession and he will be voted out of office, beat by a Democrat, in the next election.
To be clear when I say "favored" I'm referring to betting odds, which typically aren't offered by Gallup or other polling companies. In any event I feel that your prediction of a recession will be absolutely critical if any democrat is to have a chance, as last I checked history almost always favors the reelection of sitting presidents during times of economic prosperity.

Speaking of which, I'm really quite amazed how some people on the left would actually hope for a recession just to hurt Trump's bid for reelection. For an example:

"I feel like the bottom has to fall out at some point," he said in June on his HBO show. "And by the way, I’m hoping for it. I think one [way] you get rid of Trump is a crashing economy."

"So please, bring on the recession," Maher added. "Sorry if that hurts people"

....

Ouch.
 

Maou

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Take this as a comment of "concerned citizen" from allied nation.


You can shoot me but I just don't see the guy as efficiency anything: the term is coming to an end and I haven't noticed any major movement of the jobs back, neither he started some serious education reforms which will create workforce that will grab the jobs when they come back, budget is the same disaster as all of them over the last 20 years, he is flirting with various radical groups, he seriously rocked all traditional alliances US had since WW2 and all of this for no real gains since influence was lost, the wall thing got lost somewhere in the process, promises on healthcare: haven't notices any big movements either way, moves on Venezuela, Iran and NK are all mostly fail at this point since there are no real results, public safety seems to be worse than it was, infrastructure is serious but unaddressed issue, Afghanistan is still very open issue, ... etc. However due to the "salad" in the media people fail to see the bottom lines.



I am not anti Trump just on principle but the guy just doesn't seem to be qualified for what he was set to do, even if we count in all the nonsense factors and struggles of American politics. It is just that all moves are too small or too symbolic to really matter in large picture. Rebuilding/remaking of western civilization actually works for me quite well since otherwise I am in Communism 2.0 or a refugee unless EU manages to pull out something (which he is trashing btw.) I just don't see the Trump as the person that will turn all of this around. Actually since he took office here at the "frontline" there is a surge of Russian influence and just about nothing was truly done to change that. However if you gamble away the cold war victory/gains that will have serious consequences ... and as my posts suggest we really aren't too far from that.


:shrug:

Trump is efficient because he deregulated, and that in principle increases production. Good or bad.

Education reform is a joke. No big players give a fuck, because they make bank on exploiting people, and shilling college. I hoped Trump abolished the department of education entirely, but alas I cannot get everything I want. Pretty easy to fix the "Job" issue, if people focused on trades, instead of worthless trash like "free college".

"Radical" can apply to literally anything today. It is a worthless devalued term, compliments of the media.
 

Nicodemus

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More satisfied than I was with the entire Obama administration's 8 years.
That answer only makes sense if you are rooting for diminished leverage on the global stage, a more vulnerable domestic economy, and a destabilized NATO. Trump did not actually do anything for the US in any of these regards.
 

Maou

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That answer only makes sense if you are rooting for diminished leverage on the global stage, a more vulnerable domestic economy, and a destabilized NATO. Trump did not actually do anything for the US in any of these regards.

I would disagree.
 

Maou

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Then enlighten me as to how his actions have helped the US.

First, maybe look at what is happening on a local level, where people actually care about what is happening. People want a good job, they don't actually give a fuck about what someone half a world away thinks of them. Trump has brought in jobs, that is indisputable. He has also gotten more POW and various other hostages home that no one cared to rescue. He has created laws that allow good behavior in prison, to be released from jail earlier. As well as lighter punishments for first time offenders. He has brought more women into government than ever before. He has made America more energy independent, which makes USA have more leverage in affairs dealing with places like Saudi Arabia. He has pulled out of rediculous trade deals that screwed over our production industry, and stopped giving money to places like Iran. He has brought national focus on the opiod crisis. The list goes on.

Global leverage? USA has the most leverage, regardless of how much they hate USA. It always boils down to "work with USA, or get fucked". No one has the power to say no, unless they team up with China. NATO is another big thing, as stated before in this thread. If USA is the backbone of defense for the entire European. They really can't afford to piss off USA, or they will be exposed. People talk big shit in politics, but only because it has been peaceful for ages. No one has any balls to go HAM, except for Trump. And everyone knows it.
 

Nicodemus

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First, maybe look at what is happening on a local level, where people actually care about what is happening. People want a good job, they don't actually give a fuck about what someone half a world away thinks of them. Trump has brought in jobs, that is indisputable. He has also gotten more POW and various other hostages home that no one cared to rescue. He has created laws that allow good behavior in prison, to be released from jail earlier. As well as lighter punishments for first time offenders. He has brought more women into government than ever before. He has made America more energy independent, which makes USA have more leverage in affairs dealing with places like Saudi Arabia. He has pulled out of rediculous trade deals that screwed over our production industry, and stopped giving money to places like Iran. He has brought national focus on the opiod crisis. The list goes on.

Global leverage? USA has the most leverage, regardless of how much they hate USA. It always boils down to "work with USA, or get fucked". No one has the power to say no, unless they team up with China. NATO is another big thing, as stated before in this thread. If USA is the backbone of defense for the entire European. They really can't afford to piss off USA, or they will be exposed. People talk big shit in politics, but only because it has been peaceful for ages. No one has any balls to go HAM, except for Trump. And everyone knows it.
Do you care whether much of this is simply not true?
 
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