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What am I? Help me decide between INFJ and ENTP

Entp/infjGal

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What are typical results when you take MBTI or Keirsey tests?

Also, do you have a clue what your Enneagram might be?

My most typical results are infj, sometimes infp. I don't know what my enneagram type is. Let me look at that now. But I think the problem with tests is that I can't trust results of any test if I can't actually verify it in myself in terms of noting clearly when I'm using the functions, so that I can tell (not just "decide" but see for myself) that the function is dominant or at least preferred over its opposite.
 

Entp/infjGal

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Just from a quick overview, I can guess that I am a curious blend of no 4 and maybe 6 in the enneagram.
 

uumlau

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My most typical results are infj, sometimes infp. I don't know what my enneagram type is. Let me look at that now. But I think the problem with tests is that I can't trust results of any test if I can't actually verify it in myself in terms of noting clearly when I'm using the functions, so that I can tell (not just "decide" but see for myself) that the function is dominant or at least preferred over its opposite.

Describe how you are introverted. :)
 

Entp/infjGal

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Describe how you are introverted. :)

The ways in which I am introverted, you mean? Here goes:

I am not at all outgoing. I almost have to be forced to "do stuff" through pressure from family or friends. I'm pretty boring by most peoples standards. I am very comfortable being by myself in my room or my own place.

I am almost always engrossed in some spiritual book or website (they filled my room growing up, these religion, psychology books and now they fill my kindle) or spiritual thoughts about life or will at least be trying to figure out my personality type yet again. Or watching TV. I hate to be distracted while watching movies, so it tends to be solitary as well.

One of the most subjective activities I do is writing whether in a journal (more personal) or even an academic paper; also praying/meditating or just thinking about stuff.

-I have gotten into trouble with some colleagues because I can't or I refuse to write a paper with another person. ..co-writing is a very difficult notion for me because I dont see how that can be done. It is very subjective because it is about expressing what is in my mind, essentially what this other person cannot access ever, only I can. He will therefore interfere with my expressions because he can't see what it is I see until the whole thing is done. But then if it's done, there is no longer possibility for shared writing anymore.

-I tend to ignore even the advise of my professors when they interfere BEFORE the process is done. My supervisor who supervised my thesis for my postgrad said I was the easiest student he had ever supervised only because I brought him a complete paper. I essentially sought his supervision once I was done so he didn't need to do any real supervising.

-This kind of independence is not because I think I am right or devalue other people's opinions. It's just that I know they can't quite get what I'm trying to say until it's done (until they see the whole). If they get involved halfway, they won't get what I am trying to convey and it will be a whole mess trying to sort all that out because they will think I'm headed in the wrong direction and won't trust me! After I'm done, and they see it, they get to pick it apart...I will then trust their criticisms, for the reason that I will believe they get what they are criticizing. I therefore have a hard time understanding how writing can be done as a shared venture. I am a bit selfish in that I can't create with another for the simple reason that we have no shared access to the thing we are trying to create together. Creativity is private: That's what I think I'm trying to say.

Logic is also for me introverted or private as I explained. Something has to make sense to me to be acceptable as true. I can accept a proposition on the basis of evidence or probability but only if I feel there are no inconsistencies in the logic in the first place.

I am also extraverted of course.
 

Entp/infjGal

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Another thing, if you notice, I am driven by the same need even here in this thread. I want and am struggling to give the whole picture as much as possible (especially in the OP) before I get feedback. I have a need to reassure myself that you get it, before I receive your feedback. Otherwise, I'm afraid that the feedback will not be helpful....of course it might be, but this is basically how my mind works. If I am in a debate it is always because I feel the other side isn't quite answering the point, so what many people call argumentative for me generally feels like persistently showing the clean shape of the point I'm making. Once someone actually answers it, in a way that conveys true understanding, I immediately drop it to the surprise of many people. They tend to believe that my insistence has to do with my emotional attachment to the concept/point but usually it has to do with clarifying the points. I very easily drop it when it is answered.
 

robert666

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I also dislike conflict. And even now, it affects me that [MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION] is upset. I want to fix it, but I don't know how to unless I plain lie about my experiences. I know she doesn't want that, but I guess it's just the kind of thing that happens too often around me. I genuinely hate it.

You don't need to fix anything. You didn't do anything to upset anyone.
 

uumlau

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The ways in which I am introverted, you mean? Here goes:

I am not at all outgoing. I almost have to be forced to "do stuff" through pressure from family or friends. I'm pretty boring by most peoples standards. I am very comfortable being by myself in my room or my own place.

I am almost always engrossed in some spiritual book or website (they filled my room growing up, these religion, psychology books and now they fill my kindle) or spiritual thoughts about life or will at least be trying to figure out my personality type yet again. Or watching TV. I hate to be distracted while watching movies, so it tends to be solitary as well.

One of the most subjective activities I do is writing whether in a journal (more personal) or even an academic paper; also praying/meditating or just thinking about stuff.

-I have gotten into trouble with some colleagues because I can't or I refuse to write a paper with another person. ..co-writing is a very difficult notion for me because I dont see how that can be done. It is very subjective because it is about expressing what is in my mind, essentially what this other person cannot access ever, only I can. He will therefore interfere with my expressions because he can't see what it is I see until the whole thing is done. But then if it's done, there is no longer possibility for shared writing anymore.

-I tend to ignore even the advise of my professors when they interfere BEFORE the process is done. My supervisor who supervised my thesis for my postgrad said I was the easiest student he had ever supervised only because I brought him a complete paper. I essentially sought his supervision once I was done so he didn't need to do any real supervising.

-This kind of independence is not because I think I am right or devalue other people's opinions. It's just that I know they can't quite get what I'm trying to say until it's done (until they see the whole). If they get involved halfway, they won't get what I am trying to convey and it will be a whole mess trying to sort all that out because they will think I'm headed in the wrong direction and won't trust me! After I'm done, and they see it, they get to pick it apart...I will then trust their criticisms, for the reason that I will believe they get what they are criticizing. I therefore have a hard time understanding how writing can be done as a shared venture. I am a bit selfish in that I can't create with another for the simple reason that we have no shared access to the thing we are trying to create together. Creativity is private: That's what I think I'm trying to say.

Logic is also for me introverted or private as I explained. Something has to make sense to me to be acceptable as true. I can accept a proposition on the basis of evidence or probability but only if I feel there are no inconsistencies in the logic in the first place.

I am also extraverted of course.

Check out Dario Nardi's summaries of the various functions in this thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...66-dario-nardis-neuroscience-personality.html (2nd spoiler, first post)

Drop any preconceptions you have about the functions. Which of these summaries align with how you think? Even a little bit?

I know that you are pretty sure of Ti/Fe, but sometimes being stuck on figuring something out means we've made a wrong assumption. So I'm not even saying "assume that you're wrong", I'm saying keep an open mind and be aware of your biases.
 

SearchingforPeace

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I am not on board the ISFJ train, but I am not sure you are INFJ or ENTP either.

I always look at intuition as whether it brings you to one complete idea or many many possibilities. Mine does not go to multiple things, but clarity of thought.

I also believe you misunderstood Fe Ti. Ti is the other side of Fe. A Fe dom or aux will have Ti in the service of Fe, not a lack of Ti.

That both feel strong makes me want to suggest other options. Some theorists have set forth that in young adulthood, our inferior enters into a struggle with our dominant, being two sides of a coin. When the frontal lobe is fully developed around 25, things settle down.

Have you considered being a ENFJ? In my early 20s, I tested as a ISTP, but it really never was me. It was me being unaware of myself and being trapped in the wreckage of childhood issues.

I relate to much of what you wrote in your OP. ENFJs don't necessarily have large numbers of friends. They do have large numbers of acquaintances. Your discussion of reading others easily is very familiar.

As to your discussion of writing and group projects, I very much relate. I do not collaborate well. I never sought much input from professors, but presented completed work.

Just some thoughts. I struggled getting to ENFJ....but it fits.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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My most typical results are infj, sometimes infp. I don't know what my enneagram type is. Let me look at that now. But I think the problem with tests is that I can't trust results of any test if I can't actually verify it in myself in terms of noting clearly when I'm using the functions, so that I can tell (not just "decide" but see for myself) that the function is dominant or at least preferred over its opposite.

I would say that this seems very INFJ. Wanting Ti to "back up" with facts what feels vague but correct (Ni).

This is just a thought. Grain of salt and all that.

Question: when under stress, how do you tend to act? (general sense)
 

Entp/infjGal

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Check out Dario Nardi's summaries of the various functions in this thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...66-dario-nardis-neuroscience-personality.html (2nd spoiler, first post)

Drop any preconceptions you have about the functions. Which of these summaries align with how you think? Even a little bit?

I know that you are pretty sure of Ti/Fe, but sometimes being stuck on figuring something out means we've made a wrong assumption. So I'm not even saying "assume that you're wrong", I'm saying keep an open mind and be aware of your biases.

Thank you so much for your input. After looking at your link, I went back and looked for Dario Nardi's books. One should arrive next week(neuroscience of personality) as it is paperback but one was already in my kindle.

It's a difficult exercise, trying to drop assumptions.

At first glance, from the short description in the link, it seems introverted feeling has a ring somewhere in my heart. The listening mode....it sounds almost perceptive rather than judgment in that description...like something that in practice I would associate with a function like extroverted sensation or introverted intuition. It's almost meditative. I do recall learning best by simply listening passively rather than taking notes. I assumed that was intuition, of whatever sort, but it is interesting to imagine it may have also been something else. I guess my task is to try to be really quiet, like he says, enter a meditative state, and look at my heart. Introspection is something I have done since my teens and do whenever I am in some kind of interior pain. I do this until I get an answer that makes me feel free inside. I will delve into this further in both his books and try to be open to all possibilities.

Thanks!:)
 

Entp/infjGal

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I am not on board the ISFJ train, but I am not sure you are INFJ or ENTP either.

I always look at intuition as whether it brings you to one complete idea or many many possibilities. Mine does not go to multiple things, but clarity of thought.

I also believe you misunderstood Fe Ti. Ti is the other side of Fe. A Fe dom or aux will have Ti in the service of Fe, not a lack of Ti.

That both feel strong makes me want to suggest other options. Some theorists have set forth that in young adulthood, our inferior enters into a struggle with our dominant, being two sides of a coin. When the frontal lobe is fully developed around 25, things settle down.

Have you considered being a ENFJ? In my early 20s, I tested as a ISTP, but it really never was me. It was me being unaware of myself and being trapped in the wreckage of childhood issues.

I relate to much of what you wrote in your OP. ENFJs don't necessarily have large numbers of friends. They do have large numbers of acquaintances. Your discussion of reading others easily is very familiar.

As to your discussion of writing and group projects, I very much relate. I do not collaborate well. I never sought much input from professors, but presented completed work.

Just some thoughts. I struggled getting to ENFJ....but it fits.

Thank you for sharing!:) I am opening my mind to all possibilities now and will try to give each cognitive function and type genuine consideration, especially the 8 intuitive types. It's interesting what you say about the influence of the inferior. I never heard of that before! Interesting.

- - - Updated - - -

You don't need to fix anything. You didn't do anything to upset anyone.

Thank you! :)
 

Entp/infjGal

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I would say that this seems very INFJ. Wanting Ti to "back up" with facts what feels vague but correct (Ni).

This is just a thought. Grain of salt and all that.

Question: when under stress, how do you tend to act? (general sense)

When under stress, I become unglued. If it is about making a choice say of career and such, I tend to seek the input of others, kinda like what I am doing here. It takes me a long time bouncing around from all the different suggestions before something becomes settled in me and then I can make my decision, usually from inside. I guess stress for me, besides the usual external deadline pressures, is when I don't know what to do. My path isn't clear. I no longer know who I am, in a way, so I seek some kind of guidance in others. Stress for me feels like being lost in a busy chaotic city street with no clear pathways anywhere.

By the way, another thing that has occurred to me in the course of this thread, something about expressing my inner experiences to others, in response to questions (interaction) is somewhat clarifying. When I am not thinking in terms of cognitive functions but just my own inward experience, trying to express that honestly without filtering helps me SEE somethings about myself that have always been there but that I don't really think about and therefore have not considered.

So thank you all for your curiosity and questions and sharing of your own experiences!:)
 

EcK

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I have taken so many! The free ones. The last I took was at personality hacker which consistently says INFJ but until I can actually tell what Ni and Ne are in themselves, then recognise them in myself, tests will not make me comfortable. It was the same with the feeling functions until I finally got what Ti and Fe are and what Te and Fi are. Once I did, it was pretty obvious which ones I use and how comfortably/uncomfortably I use either.
Ok... so if the test says INFJ consistently, then you're an INFJ.


ta-da.

except if other tests keep giving you different results.
Could you please publish a few results here with details (ie: not the description which we already all know but the I/E, T/F, N/S, J/P %age scores.

also not all tests are equal, i believe there are some recommended ones somewhere on the forum.

That is how mbti works, you take the test - the answer is your type - if you don't recognize yourself in the description - then mbti is not for you. It's a rather simple system so there's bound to be a part of the population it doesn't apply to.
 

Forever

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Ok... so if the test says INFJ consistently, then you're an INFJ.


ta-da.

except if other tests keep giving you different results.
Could you please publish a few results here with details (ie: not the description which we already all know but the I/E, T/F, N/S, J/P %age scores.

also not all tests are equal, i believe there are some recommended ones somewhere on the forum.

That is how mbti works, you take the test - the answer is your type - if you don't recognize yourself in the description - then mbti is not for you. It's a rather simple system so there's bound to be a part of the population it doesn't apply to.

She'll get on the sparkly rainbow road to special snowflake freedom. I heard almost anyone who has taken the mbti test except for some people I definitely knew that were pretty practical got INFJ as a result. As I said several months ago, everyone is an INFJ on random thought thread.
 

Entp/infjGal

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Ok... so if the test says INFJ consistently, then you're an INFJ.


ta-da.

except if other tests keep giving you different results.
Could you please publish a few results here with details (ie: not the description which we already all know but the I/E, T/F, N/S, J/P %age scores.

also not all tests are equal, i believe there are some recommended ones somewhere on the forum.

That is how mbti works, you take the test - the answer is your type - if you don't recognize yourself in the description - then mbti is not for you. It's a rather simple system so there's bound to be a part of the population it doesn't apply to.

Hello,

Most tests Ive ever taken tell me I am INFJ. I wish I could borrow your trust in tests. :) What I would rather do is sit down with someone with a whole lot of experience typing. Then see what type they think I am from our interaction. Then talk and have them tell me what clues they are following. Like the folks at personalityhacker or personality junkie. Boy what I wouldn't give to Skype with them for a few hours.

Mbti can fail without being wrong. The questions may be understood differently depending on the person or mood or age. I distrust testing as a final arbiter but will not throw away the theory behind it! I will find a test, do it, post the specific results you seek. Maybe that will reveal something.
 

Entp/infjGal

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She'll get on the sparkly rainbow road to special snowflake freedom. I heard almost anyone who has taken the mbti test except for some people I definitely knew that were pretty practical got INFJ as a result. As I said several months ago, everyone is an INFJ on random thought thread.

You remind me a little bit of Vicky Jo Varner.
 

uumlau

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Hello,

Most tests Ive ever taken tell me I am INFJ. I wish I could borrow your trust in tests. :) What I would rather do is sit down with someone with a whole lot of experience typing. Then see what type they think I am from our interaction. Then talk and have them tell me what clues they are following. Like the folks at personalityhacker or personality junkie. Boy what I wouldn't give to Skype with them for a few hours.

Mbti can fail without being wrong. The questions may be understood differently depending on the person or mood or age. I distrust testing as a final arbiter but will not throw away the theory behind it! I will find a test, do it, post the specific results you seek. Maybe that will reveal something.

Testing is good as a first-order attempt at typing, and it's going to be about 80% accurate for each dichotomy. It's also good for knowing which dichotomies you're close on, such as J/P or F/T or whatever. That limits the possible types to just two or three. E.g., just being very sure of "N" cuts the possibilities in half. Function theory really only becomes important w/r to the J/P divide, in part because INFJ and INFP have completely different function stacks.
 

Eric B

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You seem to be definitely an N (likely dominant), and to simplify things, “TiFe” is an “Aligning Asessments” preference (as opposed to “Ordering Assessments”), and you seem to fit this as well. So we can further shorthand by saying you're trying to figure “Realizing Awareness” (SeNi) or “Inquiring Awareness” (SiNe). These are all the new terms by Berens and Montoya, apart of the new “Intentional Styles” model.
[MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION], you can look at all the Ne and Ni descriptions, and still not know the difference, because many of them are ambiguous, using general behavioral descriptions, which can sometimes be done by either attitude.

The best way to define them is to directly pinpoint what makes one introverted or extraverted.

First, there are now the wiki articles on them:

Extraverted Intuition - Typology Wiki
Introverted Intuition - Typology Wiki

The tandem styles are named as such, because they both stem from the basic S part of the tandem. Se takes in the tangible data as "is" in the current environment (e). Ni works from this, in deriving intangible data (patterns, meanings, etc) from the individual's (i) unconscious. Hence, both functions basically "Realize" data immediately. Si takes from individual memory, which is used as a mental canister that what "is", is compared to. Ne also draws from this, in taking in the patterns or concepts fromt he environment, and comparng them with other patterns stored in memory. So both end up comparing things, and hence "Inquiring" or basically going somewhere to get data, rather than just "realizing" it in the moment.

So from what I'm seeing, you seem on the Inquiring side, or Ne.

Noticing plot holes in the story I am being fed in a theory/movie/book, is what I do. This is something I quite enjoy actually. Of course I do consider how it matches up to external evidence, but it's not so much about testing a rule or measuring the theory or whatever. I just want the story/theory to explain the facts (external evidence) in a logically self-consistent way without "cheating", IE without making logical back flips or hoops when that explanation meets evidence that is not consistent with it. Generally, even if the theory cannot be empirically tested, I am generally satisfied if it can explain the given facts self-consistently. For this reason, it is extremely disappointing to me to discover plot-holes in movies, because it kind of ruins the larger story for me.

At first, "plot holes" made me think of Ni, because Ni often fills in "what's missing" from a pattern. But this, again, draws from the unconscious. (Again, Ne is also called unconscious, and both N in general, and introversion of any function were considered by Jung as "unconscious", so again, this makes it hard to tell Ne from Ni, but the key is where the perception comes from). You seem to be about Inquiring, or matching or filling in objects. So the conceptualization is externally oriented.

This inspiration is like an inner spontaneous drive to follow a certain trail of thought without being sure where it leads at that exact moment, to let it dance from one thought to another and when I write this way, it's my best, in fact, this is how I CREATE my paper or build it.

This sounds like Ne "brainstorming", and even though you said it was inner, all the functions will have some inner aspect, since they are within our own processing. But it still seems to be dealing with comparitive objects, like "from one to another". Ni is usually described differently than that, though again, there will be similarities. Ni doesn't seem to be so well marked in terms of "objects" (even if these in this example are technically "internal" ones), so it us usually expressed as symbols, for lack of better terminology.

[MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION], that first post about preserving is so interesting!!! There are things I do like to go back to from my past, though not so much from my childhood. Say for example certain TV shows I will keep going back to every few months or every few years. I have rewatched them many times. I guess I am trying to recapture the experience/mood of when I first watched it. For example, every few years or months I will rewatch Gilmore girls. Sometimes it's Friends. Or Being Erica. When I find a restaurant I like, i tend to keep going back to it. Perhaps this is Si in my inferior. For me what i am describing is not about preserving what I got from childhood perse...I honestly couldn't care less...but it is about recreating the original feeling/experience even if it was first had as an adult.

This again sounds like Inquiring, with Si likely as the inferior or "aspirational" function (If you're 32, it might be starting to develop that way, and yet it would still explain the other post, of you still not being good with Si stuff).

What makes me doubt entp? People, people, people and values....they have always been VERY important to me (Which is why I assumed I must be nf)...Then again, so has truth!

Fe would be tertiary, and should be somewhat conscious by now (if still a bit immature), plus being a female will also tend to push someone toward traditional "feeling" behavior. I find female T's with tertiary Feeling (either attitude) do look a lot like Feeler at times.

Plus, there is also Interaction Styles (theother main model of Berens), which use the old classic temperament dimension of "people vs task" (which went along with introversion/extroversion). So both NP's and SF's are "informative", which is "people"-focused, and generally means more responsive to others, and generally softer in communcation. In some versions of classic temperament (the theories using the old "humour" names), it also indicates a higher "want" of interaction from people.
So that may also explain what you describe. And again, especally for a female. This often leads to the anamaly of NTP's, the only informative Thinkers, to confuse as Feelers.

Another is that I do not consider myself enterpreneual in any pronounced way. I am kind of slow in life actually. And I do not generally feel a twitch to go out and "explore" though when I do, I certainly enjoy the sights. I thought I was introverted because I have very little need to explore my environment. Even in my office, it takes me months after starting before visiting some places in the not so large building. Same thing as my neighbourhood. It takes me forever to get to know my physical environment beyond the most basic (my actual office where I sit or my house where I live).

The ways in which I am introverted, you mean? Here goes:

I am not at all outgoing. I almost have to be forced to "do stuff" through pressure from family or friends. I'm pretty boring by most peoples standards. I am very comfortable being by myself in my room or my own place.
It's often said that EN's might not always fit the classic portrayals of "extraversion" (which might be influenced by extraverted Sensing or Feeling), but I'm not so sure of that being a hard rule.
I do believe that in the classic sense, there is a graduated scale of I/E (the "Expressive" scale), where you can be a less expressive extravert.

Since ENP as an Interaction Style would correspond to the classic Sanguine temperament, on the social level, you could look at these variants to see if they fit:

Phlegmatic Sanguine in Inclusion
(the less expressive variant)

The Sanguine in Inclusion Temperament
(the pure, fully expressive version)

The Phlegmatic Supine in Inclusion
(an adjacent temperament that is even more reserved)

But the way I see it, ENTP.
 

Forever

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[MENTION=3521]Eric B[/MENTION] why yes there are many ambiguous definitions of Ni and Ne, it's ridiculous as she believes she's narrowed it to ENTP and INFJ when she doesn't bother thinking to finding out how the whole type works out. Maybe I'm too harsh, but she's asking for a difficult answer when it can be resolved in an easier way.

It would be funny that she needs the littlest details over the big picture, if that makes sense. But I will say no more on the matter, I believe I had my say.

But yes, I do think she prefers Ne/Si over Ni/Se.
 
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