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Coronavirus

JAVO

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I think things are going fairly well overall. I haven't heard of any quarantine camps (as described by the CDC in the link below) in the US yet. Maybe that will be the eventual consequence of not "consenting" to mandatory vaccination? Although, I did hear that some hotels were being used for that purpose in Canada... :unsure2:

 

prplchknz

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243012305_161874012771625_7166680677221648377_n.jpg
 

Totenkindly

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Got our memo today from fedgov stating that all agency employees have to vaccinated by Nov 22. They provided the dosing schedule / last day per each dose so that no one can miss a deadline that would throw the Nov 22 date in doubt.

People can file for religious accommodation but it has to go through OGC (so I assume those get reviewed and approved of higher up the chain). Medical accommodations and similar are also provided.

Instructions are not yet provided regarding documentation, but they are collecting documentation at some point to verify the vaccinations, whether from a provider or one's Vaccination record card, etc. Not sure how effective "proof" is due to the forgeries out there, but whatever... The cards themselves were not really thought out well. Even grocery stores probably have better customer/tracker systems.
 

JAVO

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Social psychologist Philip Zimbardo writes in his book The Lucifer Effect: How Good People Turn Evil about how to counteract this effect. One of his recommendations:

“I will not sacrifice personal or civic freedoms for the illusion of security.” The need for security is a powerful determinant of human behavior. We can be manipulated into engaging in actions that are alien to us when faced with alleged threats to our security or the promise of security from danger. More often than not, influence peddlers gain power over us by offering a Faustian contract: You will be safe from harm if you will just surrender some of your freedom, either personal or civic, to that authority. The Mephistophelian tempter will argue that his power to save you depends upon all the people making small sacrifices of this little right or that small freedom. Reject that deal. Never sacrifice basic personal freedoms for the promise of security because the sacrifices are real and immediate and the security is a distant illusion. This is as true in traditional marital arrangements as it is in the commitment of good citizens to the interests of their nation when its leader promises personal safety and national security at the cost of a collective sacrifice of suspending laws, privacy, and freedoms. Erich Fromm’s classic Escape from Freedom reminds us that this is the first step a fascist leader takes even in a nominally democratic society.

He also writes:
Fear is the State’s psychological weapon of choice to frighten citizens into sacrificing their basic freedoms and rule-of-law protections in exchange for the security promised by their all-powerful government.
 

ceecee

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Social psychologist Philip Zimbardo writes in his book The Lucifer Effect: How Good People Turn Evil about how to counteract this effect. One of his recommendations:



He also writes:
Why is this in the COVID thread? You should be concerned about the two decades plus erosion of civil freedoms for the illusion of security. But I doubt Project Veritas is making videos about the unconstitutional attacks on civil freedoms by the Patriot Act or the proto-fascist position of the Department of Homeland Security, for example. Their ultra-nationalist, right wing libertarian donors wouldn't like attacks on the all-powerful government apparatus that suppresses all the right people for them. Your apologist position of support for the people actually working to suppress civil liberties is incredible, given your post. I also want to point out that there is a direct line between the US government reactionary answer to 9/11 and the insanity being spread regarding COVID vaccines. You should want to address the root cause of what is happening today instead of spreading right wing propaganda.

It was interesting when you were posting actual peer reviewed papers from reputable sources on the COVID vaccines. Now no one will take anything you say seriously. Oh and you do know Trump and all these other ghouls like James O'Keefe are vaccinated, right? Which makes you post pointless and laughable since the Trump org is a huge Project Veritas donor.
 
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Why is this in the COVID thread? You should be concerned about the two decades plus erosion of civil freedoms for the illusion of security. But I doubt Project Veritas is making videos about the unconstitutional attacks on civil freedoms by the Patriot Act or the proto-fascist position of the Department of Homeland Security, for example. Their ultra-nationalist, right wing libertarian donors wouldn't like attacks on the all-powerful government apparatus that suppresses all the right people for them. Your apologist position of support for the people actually working to suppress civil liberties is incredible, given your post. I also want to point out that there is a direct line between the US government reactionary answer to 9/11 and the insanity being spread regarding COVID vaccines. You should want to address the root cause of what is happening today instead of spreading right wing propaganda.

It was interesting when you were posting actual peer reviewed papers from reputable sources on the COVID vaccines. Now no one will take anything you say seriously. Oh and you do know Trump and all these other ghouls like James O'Keefe are vaccinated, right? Which makes you post pointless and laughable since the Trump org is a huge Project Veritas donor.
Yeah, I love that now two decades too late everyone cares about not sacrificing freedom for security. BTW your odds of getting dying from Covid are much higher than your odds of dying from a terrorist attack, but apparently that was a serious enough threat to make it ok to sacrifice freedom for security. Because foreigners who did a thing I saw on TV are that much scarier than a virus I can't see. They probably also don't like the fact that nobody is telling them this time around that it is their patriotic duty to visit Buffalo Wild Wings.
 

ceecee

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Virtual ghost

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Should I be thinking about Germany deleting a You Tube channel that is a propaganda arm of the Kremlin or that Russia is going to do the obvious and block You Tube?


My point was that the will of the right may not always be theirs as much as they would like, since they are being "influenced". (what adds to some recent posts here)
Plus if I understood it correctly Germany has nothing to do with all this. This is simply about cutting out the propaganda that is aimed at them.
 
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JocktheMotie

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Why is this in the COVID thread? You should be concerned about the two decades plus erosion of civil freedoms for the illusion of security. But I doubt Project Veritas is making videos about the unconstitutional attacks on civil freedoms by the Patriot Act or the proto-fascist position of the Department of Homeland Security, for example. Their ultra-nationalist, right wing libertarian donors wouldn't like attacks on the all-powerful government apparatus that suppresses all the right people for them. Your apologist position of support for the people actually working to suppress civil liberties is incredible, given your post. I also want to point out that there is a direct line between the US government reactionary answer to 9/11 and the insanity being spread regarding COVID vaccines. You should want to address the root cause of what is happening today instead of spreading right wing propaganda.

It was interesting when you were posting actual peer reviewed papers from reputable sources on the COVID vaccines. Now no one will take anything you say seriously. Oh and you do know Trump and all these other ghouls like James O'Keefe are vaccinated, right? Which makes you post pointless and laughable since the Trump org is a huge Project Veritas donor.
@JAVO has been anti-vax for a while now and his weird, chicken shit, passive-aggressive "I'll just leave this here" posting in this thread is somehow sadder to me than the others.
 

Red Herring

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Should I be thinking about Germany deleting a You Tube channel that is a propaganda arm of the Kremlin or that Russia is going to do the obvious and block You Tube?
It wasn't the German state, it was Youtube. And the Russian reaction might be that they throw German public television channels (including the journalists and reporters) out of the country (at least that is what the head of Russia Today threatened). They might also block Youtube. They have already forced Google and Apple to take down the Navalny app during the recent Russian election campaign.

While Youtube no longer hosts the RT channel, the actual RT tv channel is still running. I can receive it as part of my cable tv.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_Deutsch

Reception​

In Handelsblatt, Andreas Macho concluded after an investigation of the program of the German branch of RT in November 2014: "The bottom line [is that] RT Germany spreads more untruths, reductions and distortions than this - promise as the moderators constantly -. would enlighten".[4] Die Tageszeitung summed up the selection of the interlocutors of the first weeks of RT Deutsch with "either flaming anti-American and European opponents of the left and right margins" together.[5][6] In February 2016 a former employee called RT Deutsch "skilful propaganda" and claimed that they are concentrating on an audience of conspiracy theorists and persons on the far-right of the political spectrum.[7] In February 2021, through obtained emails, a Der Spiegel investigation provided insights on how the station planned a platform for fringe groups to undermine democracy in Germany.[8]

YouTube removed the station's two channels from its platform on 28 September 2021 or 29 September 2021 for breaking its policies on COVID-19 misinformation.[9]
 
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ceecee

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It wasn't the German state, it was Youtube. And the Russian reaction might be that they throw German public television channels (including the journalists and reporters) out of the country (at least that is what the head of Russia Today threatened). They might also block Youtube. They have already forced Google and Apple to take down the Navalny app during the recent Russian election campaign.

While Youtube no longer hosts the RT channel, the actual RT tv channel is still running. I can receive it as part of my cable tv.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_Deutsch
I see. I get RT as part of my cable package as well.
 

Red Herring

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https://www.economist.com/graphic-d...-pandemic-is-now-an-outlier-in-the-rich-world

Adjusting for population, the death rate is now about eight times higher in America than in the rest of the rich world.
A slowdown in vaccinations in the country is largely to blame. In America, vaccines have been widely available to all adults since mid-April. Yet today, more than five months later, only 67% of those aged 18 or over are fully vaccinated, according to the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention. In some states, scarcely half of adults have received their full doses. Surveys suggest that, although some Americans might be persuaded to get a jab, others are adamantly against it. The latest weekly poll from YouGov, carried out on behalf of The Economist, finds that 16% of American adults, including 12% of those over 65, say they will not get vaccinated.

The latest wave may now be starting to abate: cases, which typically precede deaths by about two weeks, are on the decline. But the virus is not going away. America’s antipathy to vaccines and continued resistance to other interventions, particularly among Republicans, is worrying. YouGov’s poll indicates that, among those who voted for Donald Trump in 2020, 31% say they will not get vaccinated, 71% strongly disapprove of President Joe Biden’s vaccine mandate and nearly 40% never wear a face mask. That remains a deadly combination.
 
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Virtual ghost

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From google and as percentages of the whole population.


US
First dose: 65.3%
Second dose: 56.3%



Brazil
First dose: 71.1%
Second dose: 42.7%


With current trends Brazil will win this "race" on the long run.
 

Red Herring

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From google and as percentages of the whole population.


US
First dose: 65.3%
Second dose: 56.3%



Brazil
First dose: 71.1%
Second dose: 42.7%


With current trends Brazil will win this "race" on the long run.
That is "total population". Numbers for "over 18" often look much better, at least here in Europe since vaccines have only recently been cleared for minors and the license application for under 12 years olds with is still under review by the EMA. People are more hesitant to vaccinate children as they run a lower risk of a severe case of Covid-19 and many places have only revently started offering vaccines for children. My own kids are too young (under 12) according to the current recommendations but will get their shot as soon as the official recommendation is cleared.
 

Paisley

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https://assets.publishing.service.g...le/1014926/Technical_Briefing_22_21_09_02.pdf

and here:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...le/1018547/Technical_Briefing_23_21_09_16.pdf

On page 22 of the first link, is the table really saying that between February 1 and August 29 2021, total deaths of the delta variant in England were 1798, and deaths of the unvaccinated were 536, which means deaths of the vaccinated were 1233, which means that more than twice the amount of vaccinated people were dying of the Delta variant, than people who were not vaccinated? How does that work? The table in the second link shows the same trend with total deaths 2542, unvaccinated deaths 722, total vaccinated deaths 1779. Shouldn't the vaccinated people have a stronger immunity than the unvaccinated people, and skew the numbers the other way? I just don't get it. This thing kills who it kills I guess. Sad.
 
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Red Herring

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https://assets.publishing.service.g...le/1014926/Technical_Briefing_22_21_09_02.pdf

and here:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...le/1018547/Technical_Briefing_23_21_09_16.pdf

On page 22 of the first link, is the table really saying that between February 1 and August 29 2021, total deaths of the delta variant in England were 1798, and deaths of the unvaccinated were 536, which means deaths of the vaccinated were 1233, which means that more than twice the amount of vaccinated people were dying of the Delta variant, than people who were not vaccinated? How does that work? The table in the second link shows the same trend with total deaths 2542, unvaccinated deaths 722, total vaccinated deaths 1779. Shouldn't the vaccinated people have a stronger immunity than the unvaccinated people, and skew the numbers the other way? I just don't get it. This thing kills who it kills I guess. Sad.
You have to look at the distribution of fatalities among age groups and remember vaccination rates!

According to that table 1644 of the 1798 deaths were in the "50 years or older" group. In the UK the vaccination rate in that group is very high, by now far over 90%. So the unvaccinated make up only maybe 5% or so of the "50 or older" group but 91% of all deaths in that period.
 
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