Coronavirus

[Paisley]

You have to look at the distribution of fatalities among age groups and remember vaccination rates!

According to that table 1644 of the 1798 deaths were in the "50 years or older" group. In the UK the vaccination rate in that group is very high, by now far over 90%. So the unvaccinated make up only maybe 5% or so of the "50 or older" group but 91% of all deaths in that period.

Ah, so the total number of vaccinated people in England is like 49,000,000 where 278,212 got the delta variant anyway, which is very small at 0.56% of total vaccinated population, and the total unvaccinated is like 6,000,000, where 257,357 got the delta variant at 4.2% of total unvaccinated population, which is comparatively higher for unvaccinated people. I suppose it just looks spurious without considering total population, that more double vaccinated people who got the virus, died, 1779 of 278,212, than unvaccinated people of 722 of 257,357, as the trend would've been way worse without the vaccination.

Question is, in the long term, will the natural immunity be better than the vaccinated immunity? Will the vaccinated immunity be forever on boosters? Will there be discrimination and segregation based on choice of immunity? Sadly, there already is.

 

[Vendrah]

Ah, so the total number of vaccinated people in England is like 49,000,000 where 278,212 got the delta variant anyway, which is very small at 0.56% of total vaccinated population, and the total unvaccinated is like 6,000,000, where 257,357 got the delta variant at 4.2% of total unvaccinated population, which is comparatively higher for unvaccinated people. I suppose it just looks spurious without considering total population, that more double vaccinated people who got the virus, died, 1779 of 278,212, than unvaccinated people of 722 of 257,357, as the trend would've been way worse without the vaccination.

Question is, in the long term, will the natural immunity be better than the vaccinated immunity? Will the vaccinated immunity be forever on boosters? Will there be discrimination and segregation based on choice of immunity? Sadly, there already is.

Just paraphrasing @Red Herring : At that time, the age of vaccinated people were very old (lots of people on their 60's, 70's, 80's, etc...) in comparison of the unvaccinated people (40's or less, around 20's on average). The conclusion we can reach from your observation is that being young (have less than 30 years old, centered on 20 yr old probably) & not vaccinated protects more than being vaccinated & old (>50-70 years old, centered around 60 year old probably). The conclusion you want to reach ("is the vaccine efficient against delta variant?") has to be made comparing people of same age at least (this either means statistically "controlling for age" or compare directly people of the same age only).

 

[ceecee]

Ah, so the total number of vaccinated people in England is like 49,000,000 where 278,212 got the delta variant anyway, which is very small at 0.56% of total vaccinated population, and the total unvaccinated is like 6,000,000, where 257,357 got the delta variant at 4.2% of total unvaccinated population, which is comparatively higher for unvaccinated people. I suppose it just looks spurious without considering total population, that more double vaccinated people who got the virus, died, 1779 of 278,212, than unvaccinated people of 722 of 257,357, as the trend would've been way worse without the vaccination.

Question is, in the long term, will the natural immunity be better than the vaccinated immunity? Will the vaccinated immunity be forever on boosters? Will there be discrimination and segregation based on choice of immunity? Sadly, there already is.

Have you ever had a vaccine for any disease before?

 

[ceecee]

Doctors Are Injecting Bleach to Treat COVID in Bolivia

The use of bleach to treat COVID has gained legitimacy across Latin America.

www.vice.com

It's only a matter of time.

 

[Luminous]

Doctors Are Injecting Bleach to Treat COVID in Bolivia

The use of bleach to treat COVID has gained legitimacy across Latin America.

www.vice.com

It's only a matter of time.

 

[Paisley]

Have you ever had a vaccine for any disease before?

Lots of them. You?

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Having been vaccinated with Pfizer seven months ago, I am wondering about this article from WebMD. Technically, I don't know if I have vaccination protection now or not.

"Pfizer COVID Vaccine Antibodies May Disappear in 7 Months, Study Says" on WebMD

 

[ceecee]

Lots of them. You?

Only a person unfamiliar with vaccines would ask - "Will the vaccinated immunity be forever on boosters?"

 

[Paisley]

Only a person unfamiliar with vaccines would ask - "Will the vaccinated immunity be forever on boosters?"

Why? Some diseases require boosters, some don't. Like Siuil a Ruin is saying, I don't think the world population should be dependent on boosters forever, but establishing a healthy world immunity by checking the blood, see who has the antigens and antibodies to fight it and see who doesn't, and vaccinate accordingly.

For those like myself who've had it, our immunities have antibodies, the second time didn't last nearly as long as the first, little to no lingering upper respiratory infection like the first time round, and both times there was no vaccine for me when I needed it.

 

[ceecee]

Why? Some diseases require boosters, some don't. Like Siuil a Ruin is saying, I don't think the world population should be dependent on boosters forever, but establishing a healthy world immunity by checking the blood, see who has the antigens and antibodies to fight it and see who doesn't, and vaccinate accordingly.

For those like myself who've had it, our immunities have antibodies, the second time didn't last nearly as long as the first, little to no lingering upper respiratory infection like the first time round, and both times there was no vaccine for me when I needed it.

The antibodies don't last indefinitely so everyone will still need to be vaccinated, regardless. I would imagine Covid will end up being like the flu, which you need an annual vaccine for. Why approach the Covid vaccines any differently?

 

[Paisley]

The antibodies don't last indefinitely so everyone will still need to be vaccinated, regardless. I would imagine Covid will end up being like the flu, which you need an annual vaccine for. Why approach the Covid vaccines any differently?

"I would image Covid will end up being like the flu", ya, people with compromised immune systems get the flu shot every year, because they don't have a strong enough immunity to fight disease, but nobody else gets it. "Why approach the Covid vaccines any differently?" Well, I'm not sure if you noticed, but this disease is slightly different, and shut down the world, so more effort has been put into this vaccine than in the past, and thankfully, less people are dying than our last pandemic because of it, but mandatory yearly boosters for those who need it, should be coupled with checking the people who don't need it, and didn't need it back in 2019 and still don't.

 

[ceecee]

"I would image Covid will end up being like the flu", ya, people with compromised immune systems get the flu shot every year, because they don't have a strong enough immunity to fight disease, nobody else does. "Why approach the Covid vaccines any differently?" Well, I'm not sure if you noticed, but this disease is slightly different, and shut down the world, so more effort has been put into this vaccine than in the past, and thankfully, less people are dying than our last pandemic because of it, but mandatory yearly boosters should be coupled with checking the people who don't need it, and didn't need it back in 2019 and still don't.

I do. Everyone I know that works in health care also does as do adults that work with the public, hospitality, retail, airlines, and so on. Please get some professional health information on the flu vaccines.

This pandemic isn't functioning any differently than the last global epidemic or the ones that came before it - those shut down and depopulated the world as well. The difference is that you can be vaccinated against COVID, there was nothing for the last one in 1918-1920 pandemic. 50 million + dead.

There no longer are polio epidemics, small pox, measles, diphtheria and so on because the majority of the population are vaccinated as infants and boosters are required periodically. Covid is no different.

 

[Red Herring]

There no longer are polio epidemics, small pox, measles, diphtheria and so on because the majority of the population are vaccinated as infants and boosters are required periodically. Covid is no different.

Yeah, but those boosters are usually once a decade if at all. The reason you need annual flu shots (if you need or want to have that protection), from what I understood, is that there are so many different strands with two, three or maybe four of them dominating a season and something new coming up next season. So far that is not the case with SARS-COV-2, so here's hoping.

 

[Paisley]

I do. Everyone I know that works in health care also does as do adults that work with the public, hospitality, retail, airlines, and so on. Please get some professional health information on the flu vaccines.

This pandemic isn't functioning any differently than the last global epidemic or the ones that came before it - those shut down and depopulated the world as well. The difference is that you can be vaccinated against COVID, there was nothing for the last one in 1918-1920 pandemic. 50 million + dead.

There no longer are polio epidemics, small pox, measles, diphtheria and so on because the majority of the population are vaccinated as infants and boosters are required periodically. Covid is no different.

Do you think all vaccines are the same? Do you think all immunities work the same? Do you think it is better on a persons immunity to stay dependent on bi-annual boosters, or to develop a strong immunity where you don't need one? I think a reasonable person would say, all vaccines are a little different in how and when they are administered, all immunities are a little different, and you need a combination of both vaccines and exposure to build healthy immunities, but bi-annual vaccines are a bit much.

Children that haven't had contact with other children aren't building their natural immunities like we were when we were young. They aren't getting as sick, but we don't know what effect this is going to have on the strength of their natural immunities 5 years from now.

Yeah, but those boosters are usually once a decade if at all. The reason you need annual flu shots (if you need or want to have that protection), from what I understood, is that there are so many different strands with two, three or maybe four of them dominating a season and something new coming up next season. So far that is not the case with SARS-COV-2, so here's hoping.

Exactly.

 

[tinker683]

Having been vaccinated with Pfizer seven months ago, I am wondering about this article from WebMD. Technically, I don't know if I have vaccination protection now or not.

"Pfizer COVID Vaccine Antibodies May Disappear in 7 Months, Study Says" on WebMD

I brought this up with my pharmacist, since I work in what I feel could be argued is a high-risk environment (home inspections, daily interaction with the general public at my office at other locations) and they told me, because I'm only 38, I'd have to get a note from my doctor.
Three weeks later, still nothing my docs office

Yeah, but those boosters are usually once a decade if at all. The reason you need annual flu shots (if you need or want to have that protection), from what I understood, is that there are so many different strands with two, three or maybe four of them dominating a season and something new coming up next season. So far that is not the case with SARS-COV-2, so here's hoping.

........I can't recall ever getting getting boosters for the shots I got when I was kid. I should probably look into that

 

[Red Herring]

........I can't recall ever getting getting boosters for the shots I got when I was kid. I should probably look into that

Over here the recommendation is to refresh tetanus, diphteria and pertussis.

 

[ceecee]

Over here the recommendation is to refresh tetanus, diphteria and pertussis.

I agree with you on the flu shot but I wonder if women know they need a Tdap booster with every pregnancy (27-36 weeks) or young adults should be getting Meningococcal vaccines. I had several boosters when I entered the School of Health and I was in my late 30's. Anyway I hope that Covid doesn't become several different strains but we live in the absolutely stupidest time so I'm expecting the worst.

 

[Red Herring]

I agree with you on the flu shot but I wonder if women know they need a Tdap booster with every pregnancy (27-36 weeks)

I remember getting that booster during one of my two pregnancies. I lost the sticker before I could place it in my vaccine passport because it was unplanned and I didn't carry it with me that day. My doc told me I should have it and I spontaneously got it then and there but hadn't known beforehand.

or young adults should be getting Meningococcal vaccines.

Over here the meningococcal vaccine is recommended for all 2 year olds. No refresher though, as far as I know. My kids both had it.


In Germany minors have to be taken to the pediatrician for regular checkups at pre-defined intervalls between birth and their 15th birthday. They check the general health and development but also look for signs of abuse or neglect. You get a little booklet at birth and are expected to have the pediatrician fill it out at every checkup. The pages include a box "vaccines up to date" which the doc has to check and sign. You are not legally obliged to do it, as far as I know, but I don't know of anybody who doesn't. It's fully covered by insurance and insurance for children is for free. It probably raises a lot of red flags if you don't do it. When we moved to a new state a few months ago we soon got a letter from the government reminding us that our daughter's checkup was due. So they really keep a close eye on these things in these parts. On top of that there is a compulsory developmental checkup when a kid enters school (and by law all school children must be vaccinated against measles).

 

[JAVO]

 

[JAVO]

@JAVO has been anti-vax for a while now and his weird, chicken shit, passive-aggressive "I'll just leave this here" posting in this thread is somehow sadder to me than the others.

Using rhetorically-loaded labels is much easier than arguing the points.

But to get back to the real point without resorting to "weasel words," you seem to be implying that questioning the safety and efficacy of vaccines, or disagreeing that they be mandated for everyone is "anti-vaccine"? If so, I'm curious to hear why you think that. I was always taught that it was the nature of science and medicine to question things, and to answer those questions with experiments and data. Suddenly it seems it's ok to just throw an "anti-vax" label around and ignore the questions. Are the vaccine company scientists and business professionals shown in that video anti-vax also?

Why is this in the COVID thread? You should be concerned about the two decades plus erosion of civil freedoms for the illusion of security. But I doubt Project Veritas is making videos about the unconstitutional attacks on civil freedoms by the Patriot Act or the proto-fascist position of the Department of Homeland Security, for example. Their ultra-nationalist, right wing libertarian donors wouldn't like attacks on the all-powerful government apparatus that suppresses all the right people for them. Your apologist position of support for the people actually working to suppress civil liberties is incredible, given your post. I also want to point out that there is a direct line between the US government reactionary answer to 9/11 and the insanity being spread regarding COVID vaccines. You should want to address the root cause of what is happening today instead of spreading right wing propaganda.

It was interesting when you were posting actual peer reviewed papers from reputable sources on the COVID vaccines. Now no one will take anything you say seriously. Oh and you do know Trump and all these other ghouls like James O'Keefe are vaccinated, right? Which makes you post pointless and laughable since the Trump org is a huge Project Veritas donor.

Hilarious twist, especially the "your apologist position." I can understand your political bravado and passion though. If Project Veritas is capable of getting vaccine company employees and scientists to say things they disagree with, then clearly they have very fearsome mind control powers.

You spent an entire post attacking the political agenda and funding source of the poster of the video, twisting that around into me fully supporting everything that poster stands for, and then calling for everyone to look to this as evidence that no one should take what I say seriously. For some reason, I'm not really concerned about myself.

Either those scientists and vaccine company executives said those things or they didn't. Do you have any information which indicates they didn't? Your politically-inflated rhetoric and silence on the matter says no.